Medieval history degree

DespSeekPhd · 03-07-2006, 12:06 PM

What is better (or is there even a difference) - a PhD in medieval history from a UK university or an American university? Also, what will it take for me to get into someplace like Oxford or Cambridge?

Blobof · 03-07-2006, 12:46 PM

For your first question, the answer is it depends on the university, not the country. I'm afraid I can't help you beyond that.

DespSeekPhd · 03-07-2006, 12:53 PM

The reason I ask is that in perusing faculty lists for various colleges, there seems to be stronger faculty research in medieval history throughout the UK institutions. However, as I do not plan on permenently relocating to the UK, I'm curious if there is a preference for American universities in American hiring committees (I would like to teach in academia, probably LAC so I can actually teach). I realize Oxford and Cambridge are well-respected anywhere, but would other UK universities be passed over due to lack of familiarity?

oldspc · 03-07-2006, 01:40 PM

The Oxford University website has this page on entry for a DPhil, which you may already have found. If you follow the link at the bottom of the page (Courses A-Z) you will get to a page specifically about history. The terminology at Cambridge will be different but I expect the requirements will be similar.

From looking at faculty lists you will have got an idea of where mediaeval history is taken seriously. That's important as some universities are heavily 'modern' in their focus. A major attraction of Oxford as a history undergrad was that its Modern History school started at the division of the Roman Empire (so contrasted to Ancient) and there was no sense that mediaeval history was the poor neighbour. If you're interested in Celtic history, think about one of the Scottish universities or the University of Wales (especially Aberystwyth).

An obvious advantage about doing historical research in the UK, especially if it's mediaeval Britain you're interested in, is that this is where the primary sources are.

I can't help you on the attitudes of American academia, I'm afraid.

Cami215 · 03-07-2006, 02:17 PM

I have a doctorate in medieval history from a U.S. school some years ago. I studied in Britain for a year and also spent a lot of time overseas working on my dissertation. However, I decided not to go to grad school in the U.K.

One of the problems with doing an overseas doctorate is getting the contacts you need to get your first job. So often, that first position comes through the contacts of your prof. And sometimes a prof will have more connections in the country where he lives.

There are exceptions. If you can work with someone who is the absolute top of his/her field, then that person probably has clout that extends across international boundaries. Still, lots of times, info about jobs comes in very informal ways. Two instructors are at a conference having coffee and one mentions that his department will be searching for someone in X field by the end of the year.

Obviously, there are advantage in the UK. You have great access to sources and you are correct that these schools have more faculty specializing in that area. Still, the US produces plenty of good scholars too.

The most important thing is not the school where you go. Yes, it's good to go to a highly ranked place, but even more important is the prof you work with. That person has to be sympathetic to your research interests. If not, you are in deep doo doo! If you can find such a person in the US, that's great. If not, look abroad. Try to find someone who doesn't hold his students for 10 years. (I knew people that this happened to.) Also find someone who is good about seeking out opportunities for their students.

I'll give you an example. A friend and I graduated from Brown at the same time. His prof really put out and found him a beginning position at U Chicago. A great first job! He's now at Harvard. Others of us, though academically as strong, were not as lucky. Our prof did not beat the bushes, and we had to scramble to find things on our own. We did find positions but not at schools the same quality as Chicago. So be very careful who you decide to study with. It can make an enormous difference.

warblersrule · 03-07-2006, 02:32 PM

If you don't mind the question, what exactly did you do with the degree, Cami? Are you a professor? I'm interested in anthropology right now. It's such a huge field that I haven't explored my interests, but I've recently found the Celts to be extremely interesting (among others).

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think it would be of interest to the OP too.

DespSeekPhd · 03-07-2006, 03:11 PM

Thanks for the advice. I'm planning on pursuing a MA here in the states first, regardless of what I decide, in the hopes of networking a bit and also making my app more attractive. I would like to research a topic that combines a bit of Celtic, religious, and medieval at the same time, so that is why I wonder if a UK uni would be best.

I've seen the Oxford and Cambrige websites, but I'm wondering what it takes to actually offer me a place. According to their posted requirements, I fit into the initial cut, but what is the difference between the applicant who gets a place and the one who doesn't? here in the US, GRE scores are a big factor, but in the UK, what do they use to pare down to the ones they want? Especially from overseas candidates?

Cami215 · 03-07-2006, 03:59 PM

I taught history at a LAC for a number of years. Since my husband also had a history degree, we were having trouble getting jobs in the same state. So we both went back to school again. (Sigh!) I picked up an M.Ln. and eventually ended up as head of a reference department in a large university library plus an adjunct spot in the history department. Now I'm a part-time writer and a mom.

Regarding Celtic studies....that's tough to find. Doesn't Harvard have the only doctoral program in the US, or are there others? I did study Welsh for a while in the UK, but never advanced beyond the basics.

oldspc · 03-08-2006, 09:39 AM

I'd suggest having a closer look at University of Wales Aberystwyth. It's possibly the best part of UW academically. It also has a Centre for Advanced Welsh and Celtic Studies to provide a focus for post-doctoral research in those areas. The town is also the location of the National Library of Wales which is one of the copyright libraries over here and a repository for Wales-related archives.

It would be worth trying to find out if universities have any additional language requirements for Celtic doctoral studies (no doubt you have Latin).

DespSeekPhd · 03-08-2006, 11:42 AM

I'm not looking specifically for Celtic studies - that would not be appropriate for my dissertation thesis. It just has a Celtic component to it, in relation to the Catholic Church.

oldspc - Is Aber better than Cardiff? According to the rankings, Cardiff has a 5 and Aber only a 4 (in research for history).

Cami - how did you like Brown's medieval faculty?

I know Yale has tremendous medieval faculty as well, so I'll look into them. I just need to track down some more accessible schools that can also support me in my research.

Cami215 · 03-08-2006, 01:49 PM

I originally applied to Yale and Cornell, but was turned down. I attended Johns Hopkins for one year and then transferred to Brown. Some of the profs I studied with are now retired but the Brown history department is still strong (not the very top, but close enough to be comfortable). Brown has the advantage of being relatively small but big enough to have some options.

Have you considered U Chicago? Also an excellent school and very highly ranked for its grad department (4th, I think).

By the way, I did study one year at University College, Cardiff in both history and archaeology. But that was eons ago!

DespSeekPhd · 03-08-2006, 03:49 PM

My husband is at UChicago right now for med school. It's a great school, but in order to go there, I would need to come back and live in the city. Right now we are just dying to get OUT of the city. Living in Hyde Park with a family is horrendous, and not worth ANY degree.

How did you like Cardiff? UMass also has a couple profs who fit my dissertation, so I'm also looking at them.

DRab · 03-08-2006, 04:36 PM

I'm fairly sure Berkeley has a celtic graduate program. Was it, perhaps, the first school in the US with that? Or perhaps it was the first to have an undergraduate Celtic studies program. Anyway, here's the link.

http://ls.berkeley.edu/dept/celtic/

I'm sure there are at least a few more departments, or perhaps one can find people studying the Celts in various departments.

Cami215 · 03-09-2006, 09:12 AM

I enjoyed my stay in Cardiff. I had an interesting living situation. We lived in a house with bed and breakfast rooms a short ways from campus. Three of us were internationals (2 American, 1 Italian); the rest were Welsh. All of the latter had a strong Celtic identity. They normally spoke Welsh in the house. I'd wake up in the morning and hear the sound of a harp floating up the stairwell. While I was there, I noticed some tension between the Welsh kids and those who came from England. I don't know if this is still the case.

The most interesting thing I did there was to participate in Leslie Alcock's Cadbury/Camelot dig. But this was decades ago so I'm not sure how pertinent my views are to the current situation.

oldspc · 03-09-2006, 12:48 PM

DespSeekPhD: to be honest my information is not up-to-date and based on hearsay.

Aberystwyth certainly has additional resources beyond the university, such as the National Library. Apart from that it is a small (population 10-15,000) seaside town that's rather dominated by the university during termtime. It's surrounded by Welsh-speaking Wales.

Cardiff is the capital and largest city in Wales (population 250,000). It's probably also the most cosmopolitan place in Wales and like most of south-east Wales is overwhelmingly English-speaking.