Addwit

I believe almost all engineering undergrads are required to take part in a senior capstone project, as WilliamC said (I certainly was). If this is considered to be "research", which is the assumption WilliamC made, then almost 100% of engineering undergrads are involved in "research".

Was what he said misunderstood, or do you object to the assumption that almost all engineering departments require a senior project?

lkf725

Let me put this another way. From your personal experience:

1. If I walked into any specific engineering school, how many of the undergraduate students there would be involved in a research job not required by the curriculum (ie, employed in a professor's lab)?

2. If I surveyed the graduate students at any specific engineering school, how many of those students would have had non-curriculum-related research jobs on their resumes?

I am not an engineer either, but would welcome comments and observations of others who have actual experience in engineering. Thanks!

WilliamC

LKF - you're still way out there in the land of non-specifics.

There a very few "fields" as wide as engineering. So before your question even begins to make sense you'll need to specify the type of engineering (CE, EE, ME, ChemE, BioE, etc.) and the career interests of the specific student.

Now - as to my personal experience. I'm a Classics major at Penn. But I'm also a Software Engineer with better than 30 years in that field. I personally know 3 SEAS students here (who for some reason really dug Latin). All three have been involved in "non-required" research. None of them are planing to go to grad school because it holds no advantage or benefit for them.

Based on my own knowledge of the Software Engineering field and the hiring practices I have observed, virtually all new grads in that field have some "research" experience. Everyone has the "senior capstone" project and most also have some kind of personal research - either for credit or resulting from some sort of co-op or other work related deal or because they were interested in something that wasn't already offered as a course.

In truth - the kids in engineering today are amazing - 1000% more skilled than we were back in the 70's. I'm glad I've found a field where I don't have to compete with 'em in my old age!

So to directly answer your question directly: 1) at Penn I estimate 40% or more are involved in "non-required" research. (Hey, its FUN!) and 2) Nearly all - but the only engineers with more than the BS I know are my age so the situation in grad schools TODAY may be different.

MollieB - wanna weigh in on this? (And I apologize for again for polluting your lovely essay!)

lkf725

Thanks William. I was just wondering as my son who just finished his sophomore year is studying mechanical engineering and is interested in in grad school or law school. He has a 4.0 and is working at an engineering internship for 3.5 months this summer, but is not doing the co-op program. He is also double majoring in German language and literature. I know if he goes the LS route, research will be irrelevant. But if he decides to study in some field of mechE, would involvement in research be necessary in addition to his practical job experience? Is undergrad research essentially a prerequisite to graduate school in engineering?

molliebatmit

I only know that at MIT, very close to 100% of engineering students participate in undergraduate research -- the overall student participation rate is 80%, and I strongly assume that the remaining 20% is made up mostly of management majors and humanities types. But MIT is perhaps not typical of most engineering schools.

veryscary

Everyone I know who did grad school (MBA, MS, MA, whatever) either did it after working for a few years or went to grad school part-time while working full-time. Several people I know worked for companies with tuition reimbursement and got their graduate degrees for free! It's a lot of work, but well worth the effort.

taromakino

Sorry to jump in, but I wanted to see if someone can answer this for me. I am a college junior (economics major) ready to transfer out of a california community college. Right now my options are to go to NYU College of Arts and Sciences where I am accepted, or take one year off and apply to Cal (I did not have enough units to apply this year). My goal is to get my undergraduate degree, and then go to a tier 1 graduate school such as MIT or U Chicago to study development economics. Assuming that my chances of getting into Cal are good/very good, do you think the difference in econ programs at Cal and NYU is great enough to justify me taking one year off and trying to go to Cal? In that one year, I plan to do volunteer work such as Americorps; I won't be going back to community college because I already have enough units. However, even if my chances of getting into Cal are good, there still is a chance that I may be rejected. As stated above, my goal is to get into the very best grad school. Assuming that I do very well at whichever college I go to and make good faculty contacts, is the risk worth the reward? In other words, will going to Cal make me a better prospect than going to NYU, all other things being equal?

Please only factor in the grad school aspect when comparing the two, I have already balanced out the two schools (Cal<NYU in cost, but living in NYC>San Fran, they even out for me).

MissLovelyRita

I want to go into journalism, but I am at a private liberal arts undergrad that doesn't have a journalism/communications major. I am majoring in English because I am interested in that also. Do most people go to grad school for journalism if they don't have journalism as an undergrad? Or is it more about connections and grad school isn't needed as long as you can get an internship or job?

sreis

Is there a significant difference to (social science) grad schools between independent research and a research job with a professor?

UCLAri

As long as you can demonstrate that it was substantive, it shouldn't matter much. Grad programs just want to see you producing new and interesting work.

MissLovelyRita

Is there any reason why nobody wants to respond to my post?

UCLAri

I, for one, can offer no real insight into the matter.

sac

MissLovelyRita -- Your major doesn't matter one bit. It might be useful to pick up a language, learn about a particular area of the world, study economics -- it all depends on what kind of journalism interests you.

Journalism is all about accumulating clips. Get significantly involved in your campus newspaper, radio station, tv station, or other publications. Perhaps you can do some writing for a small local paper. Apply for internships and see what happens. Journalism grad school is useful for those who have not done much reporting as undergrads, or who want to pick up skills for a different medium, but it is not a required credential. Even to get into grad school, you will have to submit non-academic writing samples and show you got some experience on student news outlets at the least.

Dirt McGirt

Some senior design projects may be research oriented (the Mat Sci program at my school has these projects), but not all are. For example, in ME we had groups that built a cryogenic vacuum chamber, a leveling device for radar deployment, and a high-performance accelerometer. Sure these provided a number of engineering challenges, but I would hardly call them research. These projects didn't expand the understanding of a field, they simply offered students an opportunity to apply all of the engineering knowledge that they have accumulated.

Addwit

Dirt,

Yup, I completely agree with that. I was just explaining WilliamC's statement. That's why I made sure to put quotes around "research".

At my college, the majority of engineering students did not participate in any true, knowledge-expanding research projects.