Graduate school admissions 101 - Page 5

WilliamC · 06-01-2007, 09:14 PM

Truth be told, hardly anyone at the undergrad level is going to be doing "true, knowledge-expanding research ".

I certainly can't speak to anything going on in engineering but I CAN tell you my undergraduate contribution to human knowledge involved photographing and measuring seven tiny (about 2 square meters each) rooms in Pompeii and writing it up.

For that I got:

1. A Vagelos Undergraduate Research Grant (to make the first trip to Pompeii)
2. An Indepent Study credit on my transcript
3. A Rose Award for the essay I wrote as part of (2) that paid for another trip to Pompeii to do a site a missed in (1)
4. A poster session at the 2008 AIA/APA conference (that I really do need to get cracking on real soon now!)

So... if you're worried about research at the undergrad level - relax and trust your professors and forget about what people write here!

UCLAri · 06-01-2007, 09:18 PM

Hey, I'm only relaying what my profs all told me years ago... don't shoot the messenger of the gods, please.

treehaqr · 06-05-2007, 12:39 PM

I second what WilliamC said. I spent 3 quarters doing undergrad research but it was hardly "research". I did learn a little, but it's not knowledge expanding in the slightest sense. I wonder why graduate school cares so much about research experience when most of what we do is more or less "b1tchwork" that doesn't amount to anything.

What i learned from research: It's not glamorous work; funding >> *; people publish papers in writing styles that make them sound smarter than they actually are.

I'm already cynical before i start graduate school

Oh and about PhD programs being harder to get in than MS. I was told by some that it is easier to get into PhD programs than MS simply because the school wants cheap labor for 5 years instead of two. One of my TA's was refused admission to a university when he applied for an MS program. The school sent him a letter saying if he decided to switch to PhD they would let him in.

urrjun · 06-05-2007, 01:39 PM

I think that can be true, but It's set up that way so people who are truly interested/gifted will take it on themselves to make more out of it. Outside of MIT/Berkeley/UMich/etc (schools that are expected to do amazing research work), you need to get a good idea of the overall project and the schools interest in it if you want to be doing something worthwhile.

i.e. if your school is making a big push for developing orthopaedic implants, and you are starting out in a lab thats involved in high-strength biomaterials, you have a chance to do some truly important research.

I think that for some reason a lot of people are afraid to be direct with professors about what they want to gain out of their work. Even if you want to go into patent law and don't care about the academic world, you are still giving up your time to do complex work, and they will appreciate that.

Also, I agree there is no clear correlation between PhDs or MS programs being harder to get into. MS programs may publish lower stats for admissions, but remember a lot of people pursue a MS after a few years of working. Most PhDs are straight shooters.

molliebatmit · 06-09-2007, 10:50 AM

From another thread, on money issues:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorX

At the PhD level, there are assistantships and fellowships.

Assistantships are awarded by the department in which a student will be studying ,and are usually either "research assistantships," "teaching assistantships," or "graduate assistantships."

RAs usually carry full tuition remission as well as a stipend, and require, in return, serving as a research assistant to a professor in one's department.

TAs also usually carry full tuition remission and a stipend, and require, in return, serving as a teaching assistant in one's department.

GAs also usually carry full tuition remission and a stipend, and can require many different sorts of "service," generally with an inflexible expectation of a certain number of hours a week (often 20). Examples of graduate assistantships are: tutoring in the Writing Center, serving as a resident assistant in undergraduate campus housing, serving as a trainer in the Rec Center, working in the library in some specified capacity, etc. Students who do not receive departmental assistantships can (and do) often apply for GAs of various sorts, so they do not have to fund their own studies.

Fellowships are a cut above assistantships. Unlike assistantships, they are not awarded by the department, but by the university. Departments must nominate their strongest candidates. Fellowships always carry full tuition remission, and often require absolutely no service. Some require only one year of service out of the three to five years for which they are awarded. This service is usually performed as a teaching or research assistant. Because fellowships are university-wide awards, competition is stiffer. GREs are often a central factor in the fellowship committee's decision making, because there are few truly interdisciplinary measures by which to rank candidates.

tiyusufaly · 06-28-2007, 01:38 AM

I started my own thread but I want to maximize my chances of getting a response.

I have a friend who wants to get a PhD in Physics, and ultimately wants to be a tenured professor at a university or smaller college in the USA.

He is considering going to graduate school in the UK or Canada. He wants to know if this will make it harder for him to find a tenure track position or postdoc once he is done with his PhD.

He is currently looking at Cambridge, Imperial College, King's College in the UK, and University of Toronto, McGill, UBC, Waterloo in Canada. Does anyone know of any other very strong physics PhD programs in the UK or Canada (he strongly prefers a metropolitan area, ie a place like Toronto or London)?

Thanks in advance!

bruno123 · 07-05-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

He is considering going to graduate school in the UK or Canada. He wants to know if this will make it harder for him to find a tenure track position or postdoc once he is done with his PhD.

If he holds a Cambridge or Imperial College degree, it shouldn't be difficult to get a post-doc position in the US. Getting a tenure-track faculty position right after graduation is tough though for everybody, even for graduates of top US schools. In most cases, one has to be a post-doc for quite some time and establish a solid record of publications before being offered an Assistant Professor position. In any case, there are several faculty members in Ivy or top Tech schools in the US with UK (especially Cambridge) degrees, so it shouldn't be a major problem for him.

I'm not so sure though about Canadian universities. McGill and Toronto are OK schools, but they are not that prestigious in the US. Anyway, as I said, what really matters to get a faculty position is your publications record, who your Ph.D advisor was, and whom you know in the profession who can write you great letters of reference. The label on your diploma of course matters too, but not so much as in the case of people seeking employment outside academia with a bachelor's degree only.

slipmymind · 07-10-2007, 12:45 PM

I had a 3.2 undergrad GPA and I am looking to get into a good Grad school, is that possible?

WilliamC · 07-11-2007, 08:58 AM

slip - your question is meaningless. Read the first page of this thread.

momfromme · 07-13-2007, 08:54 AM

While I agree that ECs are rather unimportant for grad school (and I'm thinking primarily of PhD programs), grad admissions board will be interested in having students who are going to be good departmental citizens. Grad students tend to be around for YEARS at the department, professors and administrative staff will get to know them very well, and they become junior colleagues. As with any colleague, collegiality is important. In other words, if there are indications that you are a difficult, argumentative person, this would hurt your admissions chances. A great deal of involvement in organizations may also not be good, since they want grad students who care about academic matters. But some engagement is a positive.

DespSeekPhd · 07-15-2007, 11:03 AM

momfromme - they get that kind of information from your LOCs. There isn't even a spot on the app to list ECs, and putting them in the personal statement will raise eyebrows (as in, Does this person not understand grad admissions? and Does this person not have enough other stuff to put in their PS?)

Again, unless it is directly related to your program (ex. amnesty or modelUN for IR), don't mention ECs.

larationalist · 07-15-2007, 02:36 PM

You can always put the important stuff in your resume under 'Professional Affiliations'.

Professor X · 07-15-2007, 04:05 PM

As a DGS, I concur. Leave ECs off your application. We don't care, unless, as DespSeekPhd mentions, they are DIRECTLY related to your intended subspecialization.

jaso9n2 · 07-19-2007, 05:32 AM

This may not be intentional, but why does it seem like all of the corollaries are close to perfect? Like, "well, even if you have a 3.8 GPA and graduate with Honors, YOU CAN STILL GET INTO A GREAT GRAD SCHOOL!" Uh, no S---. What about those of us who will be lucky to have a low 3.0? Can we still get into good grad schools?

WilliamC · 07-19-2007, 08:37 AM

Jaso9n2 - Actually it is intentional. The fact is that grad school admissions, is, by and large, incredibly competitive. Take me for example. I'm in Classics/Classical Archaeology. I have a 3.64 GPA, 710/700/5.5 GRE, 2 research awards, and a poster at an upcoming international conference. I have 2 years of Greek and 4 of Latin. At an Ivy. Sound good? Sorry, but I'm an AVERAGE applicant (a bit below in GPA to be honest) in Classics at mid level universities.

So...the short answer is no, you can't.

The long answer is more like this:

Maybe. Go out and get a job. Take classes part time in your area of interest and get a 4.0. After a couple years, find yourself an MA program willing to take a chance and nail it. While you're there attend conferences, network, and PUBLISH, even a poster at a major conference will help.

THEN, apply to the PhD institutions you're really interested in.