Hitting on and getting hit on by undergrads - Page 2

anewtypedude · 02-24-2008, 10:41 PM

really? what happened? do tell!

astrina · 02-24-2008, 11:39 PM

should've mentioned it with my previous post, but i did end up dating my TA ... four years after I took his class. (it didn't last -- his near-impossible quizzes might have been a contributing factor)

ghettonomics · 02-24-2008, 11:57 PM

This is the only reason I am going to graduate school! XD

DespSeekPhd · 02-25-2008, 07:59 AM

Oh God no. Never date a person in a class for which you are TAing. In fact, I would go further and say never date a student who may end up in a course you TA or teach. Many universities have rules about this, but even the ones that don't expect you not to do it. It opens up lots of grading and power issues, and it may affect your references in the future. Grad students are supposed to be professional. This is not professional.

jessiehl · 02-25-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

my roommate, a 26 year old phd student, is dating a 19 year old undergrad. i dont think it's a problem... they have a lot in common and it's not like he's taking advantage of her.

Sure, but since he's not overseeing her in any way (such as being her TA), there's not the same power imbalance.

If you're TAing a student, then there *is* a power imbalance, and this makes dating problematic. Really, a TA hitting on one of his/her students seems like sexual harassment.

If an undergrad is hitting on his/her TA, the TA should just explain how it would be unprofessional/create a conflict of interest for them to date.

sakky · 02-25-2008, 10:12 AM

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So do you think that it is okay and ethical to hit on undergrads who are in a class you are TAing for? Such as asking for a date or whatnot

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Most universities have RULES about this sort of thing. At my university, for instance, TAs are NEVER supposed to get into relationships with students they supervise, tutor, or oversee in any way. The rule we have prohibits ANY person (faculty, staff, TA, RA, GA) from entering into a relationship with ANYONE either actually or potentially under their supervision.

kjanebarnum,
Your TA should have been slapped. By his supervisor. And then he should have lost his TAship. Period. If you had spoken to the Director of Graduate Studies or the Department Chair, he most likely would have.

I personally have a strong antipathy toward grad students who, due to their disregard of professional conduct and proper boundaries, end up being predatory on my undergrads.

Quote:

Professor X: At my university, TAs are NEVER supposed to get into relationships with students they supervise, TUTOR, or oversee in any way.

I think that if you are TAing a class, you cannot date anyone in that class regardless of your duties. I don't think, however, that it means you can't date any undergraduate. I would be reticent to date someone in the same department as I was, but I would be less cautious about dating a nursing student or someone in the sciences, especially if they were near my own age.

I would err on the side of caution, though. You don't want to be dismissed from the university.

In the movie "A Beautiful Mind", didn't John Nash (Russell Crowe) end up dating and then marrying his student, Alicia (Jennifer Connelly)?

I think I have to hearken back to what Chris Rock once said: 'If my father didn't "harrass" my mother, I wouldn't be here...I mean, I understand some sexual harrassment. If a man is your boss and says, "Hey, sleep with me, or you're fired." That's sexual harrassment...Everything else falls under "Just trying to get laid."'

LAGator · 02-25-2008, 10:16 AM

DeepSeekPhD pretty much nailed it - just look up the definition of fraternization.

jessiehl · 02-25-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

If a man is your boss and says, "Hey, sleep with me, or you're fired." That's sexual harrassment...Everything else falls under "Just trying to get laid."'

No. You do not get to make sexual advances towards people over whom you have supervisory power. That is predatory, coercive behavior. Not to mention a conflict of interest.

aibarr · 02-25-2008, 06:26 PM

You'll get your TAship yoinked if you try something like that.

That being said, fraternization between grad students at undergrads isn't taboo. I met my husband while I was a freshman and he was a first-year masters student. It was a little awkward when we realized that our initial assumptions that the other one was a college senior weren't entirely accurate, but after that we got over it and things were fine, aside from the obligatory ribbing during the toasts at our wedding.

The difference is, are you in some manner a superior to the other person? (TA, research supervisor, boss, whatever...) If you have some influence over their job, their grade, their status, then they're off-limits. Wait 'til after the class is over, or after either of your involvement with the research has ended, or after one of you is no longer in charge of the other one. Otherwise you're opening yourself and the university up to a world of legal hurt.

<edit: WOW, it's alarming how wrong a couple of people are about the legal boundaries of sexual harassment... read the law, folks... you're going to get yourselves in trouble.>

Narcissa · 02-25-2008, 06:31 PM

wow...this IS a very interesting thread

anewtypedude · 02-25-2008, 06:45 PM

I don't think saying something simple like "would you like to join me for dinner?" constitutes as sexual harassment.

Another true story from one of my brother's professors:
When he was working as TA during his graduate years, one of his students approached him during his office hours; what she did was completely unconscienable. This girl was failing the class, so she told the poor TA that if he doesn't give her an A, she would take off her bra right at that moment and scream "RAPE!!!". In the end, the poor TA had no choice but to give this piece of human trash an A for the course. He thought about reporting this incident to the department, but did not want to risk jeopardizing his career. So the ***** got her A, and everyone lived happily ever after.

KGZotU · 02-25-2008, 07:32 PM

The short answer is, ask the class professor or your adviser.

New_User · 02-25-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

I don't think saying something simple like "would you like to join me for dinner?" constitutes as sexual harassment.

The problem is when you are in a position of power it can. I am sure you mean the best and would never hold a grade dependent on the answer, but if she is not interested she would not necessarily know that. If she does not want to join you for dinner she may feel pressured to do so, so as not to upset you and ruin her grade and that is exactly what sexual harassment is.

The best thing to do is wait until there is no longer an imbalance in power and then ask. That way if she says yes it is only because she wants to, not because she may feel she has to.

asdfjkl1 · 02-25-2008, 08:21 PM

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When he was working as TA during his graduate years, one of his students approached him during his office hours; what she did was completely unconscienable. This girl was failing the class, so she told the poor TA that if he doesn't give her an A, she would take off her bra right at that moment and scream "RAPE!!!". In the end, the poor TA had no choice but to give this piece of human trash an A for the course. He thought about reporting this incident to the department, but did not want to risk jeopardizing his career. So the ***** got her A, and everyone lived happily ever after.

I really wonder how that girl looks back on her undergraduate years now.

In a recent book, Academy X, there was a scene very similar to that where the girl did that to her English teacher. Odd how similar both girls' actions were.

aibarr · 02-25-2008, 08:26 PM

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The best thing to do is wait until there is no longer an imbalance in power and then ask. That way if she says yes it is only because she wants to, not because she may feel she has to.

Seconding. Exactly what New_User said.

The problem is that the student could potentially later claim that the TA made the student feel unduly pressured, as though there were some unspoken consequences implied with regard to the student's grade if the student didn't go along with what the TA was asking.

Graaahhh, that's ridiculous! You exclaim.

Yeah... but think about it. If you're a meek, shy little student, and you've been in classes for a few weeks and you're freaking out about everything and this TA for your class asks you out and you think you're going to fail, and you're worried that if you say no, that they'll somehow remember that you'd slighted them and think about that every time they grade a paper of yours in this course that you're worried that you're going to fail... The best course of action, in your eyes, may be to go along with the TA and conclude that one little dinner isn't going to hurt you... And things go very badly from there...

You may not think you'd react this way (I personally would tell the TA to lay off, thank you very much...), but I *promise* there are people out there who would react exactly like this, and I *promise* that there are people who have gotten badly burned by simply asking someone to join them for dinner.

Don't ask subordinates out. Ever. Recipe for disaster.

To the guy whose brother's prof got burned by a woman threatening to say she was sexually harassed... Your brother's prof really ought to have immediately written up a thoroughly objective incident report with a very arms-length tone "I met with Ms. So-and-so in my office this evening during my regularly scheduled office hours for Class 101.... Ms. So-and-so then stated, 'If you don't give me an A, I'll...' I responded that I would see what I could do about her grade, because I was concerned that she would follow through with action. I am now writing this report to inform you of this incident," and then CC'd it to everyone up the food chain. Playing around with that sort of accusation is lower than low, and people who threaten to cry wolf like that should suffer the gravest academic and professional consequences. That's just disgusting.