soleprovider14

I'm currently a history major at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, it's a large school (>25,000) with a decent reputation but nothing like UW-Madison or Marquette. I'm a junior majoring in history and minoring in the comparative study of religion. I've done plenty of research on both MA and PhD programs in history but would like some opinions/advice.

My "stats":
3.5 overall gpa
3.7 major gpa
internships (will do an internship at the public museum this summer)
fluent in Hebrew, Russian, almost fluent in French, taking German next semester
officer, soon to be president of local Phi Alpha Theta chapter (history honors society)
somewhat good relationships/networking with professors who have some influence on the colleges I will be applying to

I am most likely going to go for an MA rather than into a PhD program right away, although this is not final.

My focus/interest is modern European/German history mainly focusing on WWII, developing a focus/interest in the influence/role of religion in the Third Reich (I recently researched and wrote a fairly substantial research paper on the topic)


Here are the schools I am considering:
Boston University (first choice due to school's atmosphere/location/reputation)
Boston College
UMass Amherst (not too sure if I will apply here)
Harvard (just to see if I could get in/great school)
UW-Madison (somewhat of a safety, hopefully)
University of Michigan (great school/history program, not too keen on location)
Chicago (supposedly a great history program)

Will consider others but the above are what I have been focusing on/researching for the past year. As you can see, I am very interested in Massachusetts schools and like the area particularly.


So...what are my chances? Any advice? Other schools I should consider?

Blah2009

Talk to your professors. While I do have some friends in History for grad school, I won't claim to know too much about it. I do know MA programs are not as selective but it is still very competitive at the top schools (Chicago, Harvard, Yale..etc.).

Student35

Are you applying to those programs based on location/university? Are they departments strong in your particular field (Germany in WWII)?

Most of those (maybe all) of those programs do not admit students to just an MA. The only way to get only an MA would be to be admitted to and start the Ph.D and quit after the MA, which isn't looked upon nicely. Some schools offer terminal MAs, but my guess is most of those you listed do not.

ticklemepink

You have great GPA and languages! Excellent! Now you need to get your honors thesis up and running with at least 25 pages polished by next December for writing sample.

I don't think you've *done* your research well. If anything, I was surprised by your list of schools. I can barely have a bunch of schools in one state myself given my interests. PHD programs are much more interested in whether your interests fit with theirs. If there's nobody there doing Modern Germany or religion history, they will clearly reject you. You need to find scholars whom you admire and want to work with, then find out where they teach. See if there are other faculty members in the department who also have similar interests. After a quick look at some of the schools, Harvard and BU aren't really great matches. Boston College, Michigan, and Chicago might work if you can write a strong statement of purpose. UW Madison is by no means a safety school- it is a top 10 history program and almost everyone applies there.

If you want to be in the academia, you're going have to be willing to move wherever the offers are (just like real world anyway) even if you don't LOVE the town or the state. I am at Michigan now and I do enjoy Ann Arbor but schoolwork keeps me busy enough so I don't think Ann Arbor will get too *old*. I'm not crazy about Michigan but I am enjoying the experience because I get to meet and work with great professors here.

soleprovider14

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I recently spoke with one of my professors regarding this, and done a fair amount of research so here's an update:

I now understand the concept of applying to a school which fits me based on academic research and faculty, not geography.

Anyways, I am planning on applying to about 15 PhD programs (i'm not going for an MA anymore) and about 5 MA just in case I don't get accepted to any of the PhD programs.

After researching each department, and finding ones that have faculty that have related research to my interests, here are the schools I will hopefully be applying to:

Berkeley
Harvard
Columbia
University of Chicago
University of Wisconsin
University of Michigan
Cornell University
University of Minnesota
University of Illinois
Brandeis University
Georgetown University
University of Massachusetts
Boston University
Boston College
Kent State University

Does the list seem too long? I was a bit surprised when I was told to apply to about 15 programs but I guess the chances of acceptance will be greater, obviously. In all honesty, do you believe that I can be admitted to any of the above schools? For some reason I keep thinking that I don't have a chance at any of those programs and I should look at lesser schools.

Regarding my work, I will be doing a thesis next year so that should help out a bit.

Looking forward to any advice.

tkm256

Most people, I gather, apply to about 6-8 schools. Are you honestly excited about spending seven years on every one of those campuses?

Also consider:
$100 to sign up for the GRE
$20 to send the GRE score report to every school over #4 (for you, 11, so $220)
$70ish for each application submission => $1000
$8 for every official transcript (less if you're luckier than I was) => $120 bare minimum; some schools expect multiple copies
Total, rounded down and before complications (GRE retest, postage for paper recommendations or other supplemental materials, resending transcripts or score reports that fail to arrive etc.): $1400

That's a lot of money to blow on schools you don't think you'll get into.

soleprovider14

Thanks for your message. You're right about the financial side of this which is why I was trying to figure out an average number of schools people apply to. I was a bit surprised when a professor told me to apply to about 15. I'll narrow down the list to 8-10 probably in a few months, mostly after I visit the schools/departments.

Otherwise, the money situation isn't too great but i'd rather apply to more schools for better all around chances.

And to answer your original question, yes, I am very excited to spend seven years on some of these campuses, not all.

ticklemepink

15 is seriously excessive, even for a popular field like 20th century America. I would work from that list and whittle down to no more than 8 by October. Really focus on those faculty members whose interests closely match yours. Only apply to those that you are excited to spend seven years in. As for contacting departments for visits, you're better off waiting until September since spring semester is way too crazy for profs dealing with the current round of admissions.

Definitely apply to some MA programs but preferably not history but maybe in religion to beef up your coursework. It is becoming very common for incoming history PhD students to have a MA in hand so know who your competition is.

soleprovider14

Out of the long list I posted, I know for a fact that I want to apply/attend one of the following four:

Georgetown University
University of Massachusetts
Boston University
Boston College

I will most likely end up applying to about 4-6 PhD programs, and 4 MA programs. Would applying to the same school for both an MA and a PhD work?

For the schools I listed above, what range should my GRE score be in order for me to have a decent chance of getting in?

In all honesty, should I look at lower tier schools or do I have a realistic chance at any of the schools I listed?

Fritzie

Two quick thoughts (not to rain on your parade, or anything):

1) No, you should not apply to both the MA and PhD programs at the same school. Choose either/or. You will not be considered for both - many schools don't even allow simultaneous applications to two programs/for two degrees, let alone two applications to the same department. And honestly, how does that look - "I don't really think I have what it takes or what you're looking for in a PhD student, but heck, it might work, so I'm going to throw some money at it, and just in case I'll also apply for the lower degree so that you have to take me." No, just no.

2) Yes, by all means you should consider every school that has a program in your area! That's the first thing I noticed about your list, even though I'm in anthropology not history - you listed a lot of very competitive, schools up there. Especially because, as was pointed out above, the fit of your interests and area(s) of focus with faculty members' is vital to being accepted. It's all well and good to apply to big-name schools - no one's so naive as to think that the name on your diploma doesn't matter - but you can get a very good, and sometimes better, education at a "lower" school, and you'd be foolish not to consider them.

soleprovider14

I was thinking the same regarding applying to both a PhD and MA program at the same school, it wouldn't look good at all, nor would I think they would process two applications for the same department...

Regarding your second response, I am looking at schools ranging up until about 75 on most rankings. I was told, and believe, that it would be very hard to get a job after the completion of a PhD from a not so well known school.

What are some schools that you would consider "lower"?

ticklemepink

No, it's the advisor that matters. If the department/person you want to work has very good job placement, that's all important. A very good advisor has all the network connections s/he can tap in to get you a job.

Fritzie

I concur. School rankings don't matter for graduate degrees the way they do for undergraduate studies. Read molliebatmit's last point "It's all about the advisor" on the Grad School Admissions 101 thread. What matters are: 1) The department - people in your field know what schools have the best departments, and which departments' degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on, and "top ranked" schools don't necessarily have the best programs in all fields. 2) How well your interests match your advisor's, and fit within the department, and how well you work with your advisor (whether they'll fight for you, how well your thesis/dissertation turns out, whether you get publications out of your research, whether they'll help you with networking and getting positions once you're done) have a great impact on successful graduate school experience. Point #2 determines two main things. First, it influences whether you'll be accepted - because no matter how brilliant you are, if no one knows anything about your area they can't teach you or help you with research or networking. It also impacts what you'll get out of your degree - a degree from a department that isn't #1 in the country, but which allowed you to get great research experience, meet influential people in your field, and build a good publication record, and generally demonstrate your dedication to and knowledge of your field will serve you much better in the long run than a completely generic degree from the #1 school.

So, although of course people notice if you have a "big name" on your CV or diploma, if you don't have the substance to back it up it doesn't matter or help at all. Rankings don't matter at the graduate level.

soleprovider14

I have went about researching specific departments in the schools which I am interested in, and found many professors who I would like the work with. The problem is (as told to me by my professor, who I agree with), I don't think that I should be specifically looking for departments who have faculty who research a very specific topic that I enjoy.

For example, I am very interested in the role of religion in the Third Reich, from my understanding, I should search for faculty who are interested in the Third Reich and continue to publish works on various aspects of its' history, not professors who are specifically interested in the role of religion. I was told that there is no need to be so specific when searching for a school because my own interests could obviously change, and also those of the professor.

My point is, how am I to differentiate, sift through all of these departments which have professors who specialize in modern German history, and all do research on various aspects of the Third Reich? Should I contact these professors and ask them about their research interests, if they will take on a graduate student, if my interests match theirs in anyway?

Or should I specifically seek out those who focus on the role of religion in the Third Reich (which I don't think is a good way of looking for programs, and from my research is 1)?

I believe that I should not limit my searches by my current interests, but I am also a bit confused as to how I am supposed to pick a school, when all of these professors have interesting publications and research?

Thanks for any help.

Professor X

Look for departments with at least one faculty member who has published in the history of the Third Reich, as well as at least one faculty member who works in religious history (preferably in Europe).

That'll do it.