Online Only Masters to Brick and Mortar Ph.D

MV64 · 05-02-2009, 02:30 PM

I've got an interesting dilemma.

I recently looked into American Military University, and it seems to have really great reviews from students. It's regionally accredited and offers programs in exactly what I'm looking for.

Getting my Masters online would save me money and time, and also solve the problem my fiancee and I are having of where we need to move (she's about to go back to undergrad). In short, I'm excited about it. Also, since many of the professors there work in their fields, it seems a bit more practical career-wise.

HOWEVER

Will it kill my chances at getting into a Ph.D program at a good school later on?

I have good grades and I worked hard in undergrad, but I have yet to find a program that is really what I want. Some are close, but the time commitment and money (not to mention hassle of applying) make me leery. I can get a degree from AMU in 18 months. I could, theoretically, get into a pretty decent grad school if I wanted to, but like I said, none of the ones I've found are flexible enough or offer exactly what I'm looking for.

So, if I go to AMU, get good grades, will it affect my chances of getting into a "real" university (say, University of Kentucky for example) for my Ph.D?

Oh, and I'd obviously be studying history or military history for my Master's.

Any help would be appreciated.

ticklemepink · 05-02-2009, 07:00 PM

Yes it would hurt your chances for the PhD. One of the MOST important aspects for the PhD application is the letter of recommendation. PhD programs do expect some from the MA-level, not just UG-level. The online professors won't know who you are as a person.

You need to be a bit more flexible in terms of what you want to get out of your MA program. Military history isn't huge but professors who specialize in the area or time period will be happy to work with you anyway. You will find that papers for your seminars are going to be pretty flexible and you can tie your military history interests right into the seminar topics. It's a nice way to stretch your mind.

MV64 · 05-04-2009, 04:05 PM

Well, what about modifying my sitaution this way:

I am re-evaluating whether it'd be worth going for my Ph.D in history anyway. It'd be great for the ego, but with only 25% of the 9 or so accepted history ph.d students graduating, it's a risk. Also, I can get the same jobs with an MA and some certificates, or teach at a university and go for my Ph.D later.

As for letters of recommendation, if I can't work closely with a professor at an online university, I could always get letters of recommendation from professional work done in a historical setting, correct? After my Masters if I find good historical work, those recommendations would be just as valid from my understanding.

Or is it absolutely essential for me to get a Ph.D in history to do anything?

Also, I worry that I worked so hard to get good grades in my undergrad year that by goign to an online university I am sacrificing my ability to say I'm "elite." But it would be so much more convenient to do an online university. And I could always make up for it in quality of my work. I would hope.

Does any of this sound plausible?

ticklemepink · 05-04-2009, 06:21 PM

What are you looking to do with a graduate degree in history? If just for the fun of it, do those online Us and you can do what you want.

There are many reasons why people drop out of PhD programs. They get burned out. They wind up with family obligations. They failed their comprehensive exams. Their dissertation projects fall apart. There are more things that you can do with a PhD in history than you think. The price you'll have to pay is giving up your independence as a researcher and research based on someone else's agenda.

You cannot get the same jobs as people with MAs nowadays. Community colleges are hiring PhDs now over MAs (used to be you could apply with a MA). Most historian jobs prefer PhD over MA. So by getting a PhD, you are increasing your chances of landing a good job as a historian, if that's what you basically want to be.
LORs from... other historians in museums and public archives are okay but definitely do not replace those from professors who hold PhDs. I think this question might be best answered by Professor X...

Your time in undergraduate was never wasted. You worked hard because you wanted to give yourself opportunities. Convenient? I think you'll be in for a big shock when I tell you this: In order to get your PhD and get a job that you want/need, you NEED to be flexible and be willing to move ANYWHERE. Otherwise, you'll be at dead-end. You need to chase after them, it doesn't chase after you.

Hence, why I don't think online universities are good idea. Having a MA from there sends bad signals. I know of MAs in my school are making sacrifices, especially the part-timers. One even did a LDR for the whole time he was here.

Professor X · 05-04-2009, 07:40 PM

TMP is correct. An online MA will certainly not be helpful to anyone looking to pursue a PhD.

Her suggestion to examine your goals and then chart a rational path to achieving those goals is spot-on. An online degree in history will never lead one to a career in academia.

You may also wish to rethink military history as a subfield. No one hires in military history except the military academies. That is a frightfully limited market for a PhD seeking employment.

MV64 · 05-05-2009, 11:01 AM

Well, my goals aren't to teach at a college, but I'd love to do research work for think tanks, historical organizations, (I'll have a BS in Political Science as well), that type of work. I understand the flexibility and need to chase down jobs and move, I fully planned on doing that anyway. My thinking is, if I do it online I can start looking for work now, get some practical experience, get it done cheaply and easily (rather than being locked into a physical university in the middle of nowhere for the next years of my life), cut down on my debt, and also more easily pursue post-masters certificates in specialist areas.

Not to mention save hundreds on GREs, visits and application fees, along with all the time to wrangle professors to right my letters of recommendations and the limbo of not knowing who will accept me until later.

From the two of you, I get the impression that a Ph.D is really only good for work in academia. Well, like I said, I'm not interested in teaching at a university, and military history remains the most popular main-stream form of history. If I want to do research or consulting or anything like that, it seems military history would be the way to go.

Of course, it does have it's limitations, and I originally planned on doing diplomatic history but the few programs out there are both expensive and hard to get into, even with my good grades. You see, I never got to really know a professor in my undergrad years, so my letters of recommendations will only be so-so I think.

Appreciate the responses!

Student35 · 05-05-2009, 01:52 PM

If I'm doing the hiring between two equally qualified applicants, outside of academia, I'm hiring the one with the traditional MA over the online MA. Online degrees are fine in some fields, but not history.

Momwaitingfornew · 05-05-2009, 02:22 PM

Why do you need a master's degree to meet your career goals? Do you know of job openings that require a MA?

I know of one top LAC grad who got a job in a university archives right out of college. It didn't pay much, but he loved it.

MV64 · 05-05-2009, 02:40 PM

Well, to get any job related to hsitory you have to have a minimum of a Masters, really.

MV64 · 05-05-2009, 02:42 PM

Or job experience, I suppose. I'm not looking to get rich, either. Just to make enough to pay off my loans and be happy working.

I suppose you could get any of these jobs without an MA, but it's a serious uphill battle.

I don't understand the prejudice against an accredited online university, but I understand it's out there. The only difference is in one, you sit in a class. Technology has come far enough to where an online class is virtually the same. There are no limits to discussion, lecture, or any other interactivity.

I have started looking for online MA's related to brick and mortar schools, though, like Sam Houston State University and so forth. Not many of them for history yet, though.

Momwaitingfornew · 05-05-2009, 02:46 PM

Here's something to consider: apply to a PhD program in history, and hope that you get funding. Most universities will award an MA if you're ABD (all but dissertation). Does your fiancee's undergrad institution offer a PhD in history? If not, are there other universities nearby?

Professor X · 05-05-2009, 02:59 PM

Given your goals, you might wish to consider Public History. There are a few reputable MA programs in Public History offered through actual brick-and-mortar universities. Most students in these types of programs are employed, and have tuition paid or reimbursed by their employers. If you can find a job that offers these benefits, that clearly would be the best route to take.

MV64 · 05-23-2009, 11:27 AM

You know, that's worth looking into. The only part that worries me is that I really like doing research and writing. I suppose I could still do that with a public history masters, I suppose. And at least I could probably find a job with it. Can you work in archives with a public history degree? I really have no interest working with collections, but I like archives and of course I'd love the aspect of doing history consulting work and media work.

ticklemepink · 05-24-2009, 01:02 AM

Archives are indeed public history.... but public history may require a course or two on collections so be prepared! Also collections work IS part of the whole archives job... so you better like collections or you may not find working in archives as interesting...

entropy · 08-31-2009, 09:43 AM

I am actually enrolled in American Military University because I love the type of courses that they offer. I am enrolled in the Asymmetrical Warfare program, and I felt this would be great because I want to study African Military History. I don't know if I am making the right decision though. I would love to teach "Contemporary African Military History" at a college one day, but I have not found any graduate programs in History that give me the fraction of interest that AMU's programs give me. Hell, I don't know if teaching this field is possible. I don't know what to do. Please help someone. I graduated with a 3.5 GPA from undergrad in Political Science with minors in History and African Studies. I haven't taken the GRE yet.