Momwaitingfornew

Ilikedrit, maybe we should turn this burden of proof around to you. What proof do you have that LORs written by graduate students are acceptable?

Stickid

Your arguments against my claim is truly compelling.

StrangeLight

don't get a letter from a grad student or post doc.

why? because professors have told me that those letters don't count for *****. is that good enough? post-docs are not their peers, so their word carries less weight. they also have no real experience writing admissions LORs, so their letters are weak and lacking the detail the adcoms want to see.


or just go ahead and do what you're going to do.

Professor X

StrangeLight is completely correct.

If I were to receive a letter of recommendation from a graduate student, I would conclude that

1) the student applying to my program is unable to follow simple directions, since my department's graduate program website specifies that letters must be written by professors, and

2) that the student applying was not well-advised by his or her own professors, since one's professors should mentor one through the graduate admissions process, or

3) that the student was unable to secure appropriate letters from appropriate sources, which would lead me to conclude that the student's graduate school plans are not supported by his/her professors.

Orion8

Strangelight,

What is your intended field for grad school?

StrangeLight

i'm already in grad school. i'm in history.

ilikedrit

Given only the following choices, which would you choose:
(i) a glowing letter from a graduate student
(ii) a flat or negative letter from a professor

Example of what I mean by "flat":

Dear Sir/Madam,

[applicant] attended [course] and received a grade of [grade]. I recommend [applicant] to your program.

Sincerely,
[prof]

Countless authoritative sources say a flat letter definitely damages one chances. Yet I have not found any authoritative sources say that a positive letter from a graduate student is damaging, only that it may not have as much weight.

Let's measure the aggregate strength of the letters on a point scale. Positive letter from a professor is +1, positive letter from a graduate student is 0, and flat letter from a professor is -1. Let's suppose the minimum number of letters required is 2 and that I send 2 letters in.

Scenario 1: Positive letter from a professor & positive letter from a graduate student = 1+0 = 1
Scenario 2: Positive letter from a professor and flat letter from a professor = 1-1 = 0.

Since 1 > 0, it appears that scenario 1 is better than scenario 2. Hence, a positive letter from a graduate student is better than a flat letter from a professor.

I present this scenario to you because these are the only choices I believe I currently have. Now which would you choose?

mtlve

The letter needs to be from a faculty member. I would try to get a letter from the grad student's mentor. If that PI does not know you well, they will likely have the grad student write the letter (or part of it) and they would co-sign it.

A non-professor's letter will not be worth much of anything.

Stickid

ilikedrit, I dont think anyone is going to agree with you on this. I think it is time to drop it.

arronnie

ok, giving this thread another angle, who is an ideal candidate to write an LoR?

cosmicfish

ilikedrit - my 3rd letter pretty much said the same as your "flat" letter, and I got in to every school to which I applied save MIT. What you are missing is that the "flat" letter you listed is still better than a grad student letter. It is okay if you have not created a deep personal relationship with every professor in the department, but a letter from a grad student implies that you could not even get a professor to say "He got an A and participated in class."

StrangeLight

a tenured professor whom you have studied under for more than one year, who has supervised your own research project or employed you to participate in a research project with him or her. this tenured professor would also have big name recognition in your field and have personal and professional relationships with the professors at the schools to which you are applying. this tenured prof would also think the sun shines out of your rear end, preferably.




and can we like ilikedrit get his letter from a grad student, please? he seems pretty insistent on it, so let him go for it and see where it gets him.

ilikedrit

Lol, which is funny seeing as almost everyone I've talked about this, being mainly authoritative sources who would know a lot about this, have agreed with me on this. Maybe you "people" (i.e. person with multiple alts and too much time on their hands?) need to get out from under that rock before you dig yourselves deeper into that hole.

Stickid

You clearly dont value the opinion of the people on this website so why are you even bothering to continue posting?

My biggest problem with using a grad student is that there is no proof that the grad student is capable of succeeding in research and therefore is not in a position to vouch for someone else. Unless there is somewhere for the grad student to list their credentials when they submit the letter.

Also for all the adcoms know the grad student could be your best friend which would definitely be inappropriate.

safetypin00

Exactly^! Acceptance rates at Univ. of Toronto for graduate school are pretty big, just as undergraduate ones.. yet it is a very well-respected University. Top 25 in the World for research and often top 10, depending on field. With the amount of graduate students here, man, I've met a lot of stupid ones. All it takes to get in is good grades (like <3.5) and for a PI to like you, or think you'll at least know how to pipette. Not even remotely comparable to someone who has gone through the PhD, has done post-docs, has a job that's not just running a lab, but teaching, giving talks, going to international conferences, etc..etc..

But ANYWAY, ilikedrit, we'll just see what happens. mayyyybe you are right. Maybe the glowing letter from a grad student will be MUCH better than a flat letter from a PI. Please keep us updated on the process, will-ya? I'm curious to know.

To me, getting a great letter from a grad student is akin to getting a glowing letter from your grandmother. Yeah, they like you, but so what?