Getting funding as an engineering master's student

mercinator · 10-31-2009, 06:14 PM

I'm applying to graduate schools for a MS in mechanical engineering right now, but the only way that I would attend is if I receive full funding. I have a 3.9 GPA right now as I'm in my 4th year at UCLA. My current list of schools is Stanford, UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, and Princeton. I don't have any research experience or any internship or engineering job experience. GRE is 790 Math/600 Verbal/ 5.0 writing.

With this information, several professors I have talked to have told me that I would most likely get into these schools, and receive full funding. But the more I look into it, the more I start to doubt what they're telling me. It seems that lots of places don't like giving funding to master's students. UC San Diego stated explicitly on their MAE graduate student web site that they reserve funding for PhD students only. One professor told me that Stanford operates the same way. If I get into these schools but don't receive any financial aid through funding, there is no way I will attend - no funding is a deal breaker.

I realize this is a rather vague question without going into specifics, but how likely am I to receive funding at the schools I'm applying to, with the stats I have, as only a master's student rather than PhD student? Is there anything I can try to do to increase my chances of receiving funding from these schools?

gthopeful · 10-31-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

If I get into these schools but don't receive any financial aid through funding, there is no way I will attend - no funding is a deal breaker.

I would definitely not apply to Stanford then and save yourself the application fee. I am under the impression that pretty much everyone pays for their first year. I have no doubt that you will be admitted to most/all of those schools for an MS, but you'll have to pay full freight almost assuredly.

The idea is that the MS is a way for schools to make money, whereas for the Ph.D you will be a source of cheap labor, and to keep those students from facing any further hardship, they try very hard to keep them funded every semester, which means giving them TA's when their advisor does not have RA funding.

LongPrime · 10-31-2009, 08:28 PM

doesn't your school have a 5th year master's?

moommoombaba · 10-31-2009, 11:23 PM

it's hard to get funding for master's. you have good stats you should be able to get in no problem but getting funding is VERY hard, especially you don't have any research/job experience. i don't know any engineering master here at stanford get full fundings. a very few of them got partial fundings through TA/RA, one of them got partial fundings as grant but he has A LOT of connections here.

as far as i know, stanford's fellowship is merit based across the whole school. you have to compete with history, math, music majors.. etc. they look at everything you submit, from GPA to SOP to experience, even GRE verbal counts too, sucks huh for engineers. i got a little better stats than you plus 3 years of work experience with a PE but still no fundings. my undergrad engineering school chair told me i shouldn't have to pay for masters with my stats but i guess she didn't foresee the ****ty economy we are in right now. i heard the fellowship fundings here and at berkeley got cut half this year because of it. i am not surprised though.
also if you get the fundings as TA/RA you are limited to take 3 classes max per quarter, so you can't take 4/quarter and graduate in a year. it will take you 5 quarters to graduate thus increase your total living expense while you are in school (it's expensive to live in palo alto). so the bottom line is... you should expect to pay for your masters, take out a student loan to fund yourself. that's what most of us are doing here. and the others are just rich....

wasbear · 11-01-2009, 04:17 AM

You could always apply to a Ph.D. and leave after getting a master's.

moommoombaba · 11-01-2009, 04:36 AM

some schools require MS to apply for Phd. either way it's impossible to get in without research experience.

cosmicfish · 11-01-2009, 10:23 AM

It IS possible to get into a PhD program without research experience - its just harder. With your gpa and gre you can probably get in at the schools of interest, except perhaps Berkeley. As moom noted, some schools do not accept MS candidates but this is not always obvious from the application - if the application is common to the university it may list a masters as an option, even though the department will immediately discard it.

Funding for a masters, expecially now, is quite capricious and rare. If you are dead set on this you should apply to a large number of schools to increase your odds of getting funded at least once. I would not recommend the "dropping out of PhD" route to a masters, as it will hurt your reputation with that school and faculty, which could come back to haunt you later.

As an alternate, most big companies will fund you for a masters degree in engineering - there are a number of good companies near good schools, you could knock out a degree in 2-4 years part-time (perhaps coursework only, perhaps research) while collecting a full paycheck. It's a little hectic, but financially it is a great option!

Mobiusfrost · 11-02-2009, 10:50 PM

'I would not recommend the "dropping out of PhD" route to a masters, as it will hurt your reputation with that school and faculty, which could come back to haunt you later'

I thought that was the best option for those like me who are slightly more sure that I want a phD rather than a MS?

on a side note, i noticed alot of engineering grad programs force you to get the MS before the phD. In that case, do you have to pay for the MS? or are you funded the entire time?

cosmicfish · 11-03-2009, 12:33 AM

If you think you want the PhD "slightly more" than an MS, then go for the PhD and the funding. If you start with enthusiasm and then decide it is not for you, your advisor and department will generally understand. I do not recommend doign this under false pretenses because it is hard to conceal while working closely with an advisor for a few years - and if they think you were insincere about even WANTING the PhD, they will note that in any reference they give.

As far as funding in engineering programs goes, most of those that require an MS en route will fund it provided you are on the PhD track!! There are of course exceptions, especially if you are low on the funding list, but that is generally the case.

LongPrime · 11-03-2009, 02:14 PM

[Principal Investigator/Advisor], "Tell me, Why you want a MS [prospective student]?"

Mobiusfrost · 11-04-2009, 02:01 AM

'If you start with enthusiasm and then decide it is not for you, your advisor and department will generally understand. I do not recommend doign this under false pretenses because it is hard to conceal while working closely with an advisor for a few years - and if they think you were insincere about even WANTING the PhD, they will note that in any reference they give.'

But I'm not all that enthusiastic about wanting the phD right now

cosmicfish · 11-04-2009, 12:09 PM

Mobius - maybe you should take some time off from school, then. If you are not enthusiastic about the PhD then it is probably not for you. It's like getting marriage - you only plan to try it once, it is going to completely upend your world, and if you are not sure about it you should not be walking down the aisle. And since this is your starting point, I think you will have a hard time leaving the program with both an MS and the respect of the faculty. For that matter, if they sniff you out as a terminal MS you may find your funding cutoff halfway through!

If you are in science or engineering, the best advice I can give is to go industry. There are several good companies that will pay for your masters at any of several great schools - my employer paid 100% of my masters at Johns Hopkins. All above board, no deception, and a solid paycheck all the way through.

Stickid · 11-04-2009, 12:50 PM

I am curious about something. What do departments generally think of students who apply saying they want a PhD but after they get their masters from the first school they leave to get their PhD at another school.

bubblesocks · 11-04-2009, 03:47 PM

"I am curious about something. What do departments generally think of students who apply saying they want a PhD but after they get their masters from the first school they leave to get their PhD at another school."

Good luck getting anyone to write your recs to pull that one off. Though I suppose if it clearly wasn't a good fit between you and your current department, it might be possible...

cosmicfish · 11-04-2009, 05:43 PM

Stickid - it depends a lot on the reasons.

If a junior professor fails to get tenure, some of his/her more senior students will often follow him/her to their next school to maintain the focus of their thesis - this is generally considered acceptable.

If outside circumstances dictate a move (for example, a spouse's employer-dictated relocation) they will generally be understanding.

If you realize that (a) your current research area is not one you really want, and that (b) there are no other professors at your current school researching your desired area, they will usually understand your moving to a school researching your interest.

If you are unable to continue at your current level of funding, and are offered better elsewhere, they can usually accept that.

but...

If you are transfering for no apparent reason other than prestige, location, or other such "inconsequentials", they will think very poorly of you and say so to anyone who asks.

If your desire to transfer appears to have started pre-enrollment and they have been funding you, they will consider you untrustworthy. And will say so.

Please note, this is based on some similar discussions I have had with current or former faculty at several schools, and some schools may have a different take.