stine31283

This one is to HC haters:

Don't judge us by a few random freaks, like Godelia and that guy from '99, whose sole purpose in going to HES is to be decitful and pass themselves off as an HC student. Godelia was clearly extremely mentally ill, (read the article in The Crimson about his sorry story, and it's evident that the guy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic) and the other guy wasn't much better off upstairs. In no way should our whole school get judged by the actions of a few.

Basically, there's room for all 12 schools at HU. We respect what you're accomplishing, try to do the same for us. Most of us are very clear on who and what we are, and we're just trying to better ourselves in the same ways you are.

race64

from the extention school, can u then transfer to the actual college?(undergrad)

brandon_ruse

Hi race,

There are circumstances in which what you're suggesting has happened but from what I'm remembering the credits were not transferable so taking that route, even if possible, would be wasting a lot of time and resources. This plan you're suggesting is very unlikely and almost impossible. The Extension School has great offerings and catersto a nontraditional background and also provides many classes taught by the same Professors in the College. While the quality is the same, you wont get the social aspect that would be associated with living in the dorms and living on campus. HES does have associations for its students wherein we socialize and have fun but it is not to the same degree. I would suggest that if you're interested in the College, apply there. By no means is the Extension School a proving ground to get into the College. Saying that though, our graduates have gone on to get into Harvard graduate schools such as HLS, HMS, and most of the others. It is few and far between. I would suggest that you look at your goals and take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What fits with your life and circumstances will ultimately guide your path. Good luck.

Regards,
Brandon Ruse
former ALB Liaison '09, Harvard Extension Student Association

brandon_ruse

Also, following up on my earlier comments, the Extension School offers a Special Student option for admitted degree candidates who have met certain averages and also applied to be a Special Student at the College or the GSAS. If you're interested in more information, please ask.

redlinekid2

Brandon,
Did you ever get admitted into the ALB Degree program?

brandon_ruse

Yes, I did redline and I'm set to graduate next Spring with my ALB degree.

siserune

That's a new and very interesting development.

Reporting the degree as Extension Studies is a new policy for this year. For the past few years the Extension School web site didn't specify how AA and ALB alumni should cite the degrees on a resume, and for ALM they specifically encouraged the format "Harvard University, ALM in History" with no mention of the Extension School. See the URL posted earlier in this thread.

HES' older web page, through 2004 or so, apparently used to also specify writing "Extension Studies" (or was it "Extension School"?) on the resume, as it does this year. HES administration then silently changed the policy to the one of fudging the affiliation by omitting any mention of the Extension School. Later, the Dean of HES tried to have the words "Extension Studies" removed from the degrees, but this involved formal discussions with the faculty senate, at which point the College students and University faculty pushed back. In the aftermath, apparently the HES was forced to maintain at least some minimal clarity on the distinction between its degrees and those from the College.

It would not be a surprise if the impetus for the HES policy change came from a Harvard student reading this thread and contacting the registrar or the FAS.

redlinekid2

Brandon,
From your personal experience, how difficult was the Expository Writing Class? In addition, was Thomas Underwood your instructor? Thanks!

sakky

Yeah, but I wonder how much that really matters in the real world. Let's face it. People are always going to fudge their resumes no matter what. In fact, frankly, they probably should. After all, a resume is just a marketing document, nothing more. While you can't outright lie, you don't have to reveal the whole truth either, just like how McDonalds advertises its burgers to look as tasty as possible, but of course conveniently chooses not to mention the calories. That's how marketing works.

Hence, I could imagine that if I was a Harvard extension school graduate, I would probably leave off the "Extension Studies" suffix and, if caught, claim that I was just following the old rules and never realized that they had changed. After all, how many of us bother to check our old schools to see whether the resume credential-listing rules have changed?

drek'thar

This mentality (it's ok to misrepresent and to mislead as long as it is not technically a lie) is what led this country to problem it's currently having.

sakky

Sure, but on the other hand, only a sucker tells the truth when nobody else does. When others puff their resume and you don't, then they'll be selected for the job over you.

Look, don't get me wrong. I don't like the system. I wish it didn't work this way. But as long as it does, you'd be a fool to stop when others won't. The person who gets the job is not necessarily the most qualified, but rather the person who can convince the employer that he is the most qualified, which is not the same thing. Self-marketing and self-promotion, like it or not, have become integral to the hiring process.

Ryan Patrick

There is a lot of discussion here about the ALB (which I think is a great program, by the way). I'm actually considering the ALM program with a concentration in history (or possibly the new international relations option). I already have a masters degree from a professional school, but would like to pursue a liberal arts education. I am a working adult and HES provides me with the opportunity to pursue my scholarly interest while not putting my career on hold, that's what I find so compelling about the school and its programs.

Quite frankly, I could care less about what a bunch of 18-22 year olds think of me, but I am curious to know what the general perception of the ALM candidates is among masters degree seeking students from other colleges at the University. Is there any interaction between students from different colleges at the graduate level? If so, are ALM candidates viewed as peers or looked down upon? If anyone can provide any insight I would appreciate it.

siserune

^The grad schools other than the Faculty Of Arts And Sciences (FAS) are somewhat isolated from the College, and almost totally isolated from the Extension School, so I don't know if they have an opinion at all. FAS itself has few masters degree programs, and mostly the PhDs interact with other PhD students and with College undergrads (as teaching assistants, lecturers, "resident tutors" who eat or live in the dormitories). A PhD student is most likely to encounter an HES student when working as a teaching assistant, an HES instructor, or as a classmate in a non-HES grad course taken for the ALM.

Students at the College (undergrad) can and sometimes do take courses at the law, business, education and medical schools, but there isn't much enrollment in the other direction, because those are professional programs and people are busy. A lot of the students in the grad programs, because they did their bachelors' degrees elsewhere (including outside the USA) don't know much about the College or Harvard outside their program. They may not know that the extension school exists, or that it grants master's degrees, or that an ALM is a degree from a continuing-education program. So whether other grad students consider you a "peer" is almost an irrelevant question; the HES could offer the world's strongest coursework to the most selectively admitted students and it wouldn't be on the radar for most of the Harvard grad students, under the current setup.

daymo

To stine and siserune to clarify:

The "very interesting" development in how the ALB should be represented on the CV is slightly incorrect. The website states in a response to a question on what the diploma looks like as a student being awarded a:

Bachelor of Liberal Arts (ALB) in Extension Studies from Harvard University

It states that it should be listed on your CV or resume as:

Bachelor of Liberal Arts, Harvard University Extension School
Concentration: Social Science (for example)
Field of Study: Government
Citation: Legal Studies

Either way, it would not be appropriate to just say "Bachelor of Liberal Arts, Harvard University" on a resume or CV because that could be misleading. A person may as well put the extra two words in there anyway, even if it wasn't required, in order to be clear.

Now, on an abbreviated bio, or in casual conversation, I think it would be not only accurate, but fair to say: "Yes, I have a bachelors from Harvard." There is nothing wrong there. But then there would be a chance that more questions and conversation about the school would ensue, which at that point, I could say for instance: "Well, I completed a majority of my courses online when I was in the military with what is called the Extension School, an institution they have for working adults that is much more affordable then the traditional college. After X years, I fulfilled the bachelors degree requirements and received my diploma at the Harvard commencement in 20XX. So basically I got a top shelf education for a quarter of the price."

sakky

At the risk of beating a dead horse, may I ask, even if such verbiage was misleading, why would it matter?

Let's be brutally honest - companies mislead people all the time. They mislead their employees, they mislead their business partners, and they mislead their customers. Advertising, for example, is basically skillful misrepresentation. As I stated above, McDonalds will try to sell you a burger by displaying it in a way to appear as tasty as possible, all the while hiding information about its calories.

If employers are perfectly allowed to market themselves to you, then I see no reason why job candidates can't market themselves to companies. What's fair is fair.