dcircle

you can definitely apply out to other medical schools if you feel it is in your best interest and a handful of plme's take the MCAT to keep this option open (though the main reason for switching medical schools is to be closer to home). Brown DOESN NOT restrict you from taking the exam--that would be both absurd and illegal.

zdzdjl

up to last year, if you take MCAT, you loss the med school spot. I don't know now.

dcircle

that was never the case. you always have been able to take the MCAT and reserve your spot in the PLME med school class. i even know PLME's who have enrolled at harvard law school (deferring med school) and still kept their spot in the med school class

zdzdjl

I can't find the words about the PLME binding in Brown web any more, but found this:
PLME binding?
""Note: Students who expect to apply to other medical schools should not apply to the PLME which is an eight year educational continuum."

icy9ff8

USC or Brown are much better than Harvard undergrad if you are sure that you want to practice medicine. Sorry, but like post #14 implied, Harvard should not even be under consideration if you have other outstanding options which guarantee your admission to medical school. Why throw yourself into intense pre-med competition at one of the world's best schools, when you have a guaranteed option without taking the MCATs? USC or Brown.

JohnC613

USC over Brown. You got half tuition at USC

but Harvard gives you bragging rights
However just because you're harvard undergrad doesn't mean you'll go to a great med school. Even if you went to Harvard, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to get into Keck or Brown

the med programs are the easy way out. none of them are binding. If you do feel like applying to other med schools, being from Harv undergrad vs USC undergrad that make that much difference anyway

just_forget_me

College is more than just a means to an end!

It's not just about what path can get you the MD the quickest, cheapest, and with the least amount of work put in.

The OP made a very coherent + convincing argument that going to Brown would be a great choice because he could pursue a passion in art, learn a ton of neurosci, and not have to worry about med school. To me, that kind of analysis far more important than "oh you'll be in school for 1 less year" or anything like that.

If the OP would have a miserable (or at least, significantly inferior time) at USC, Brown or Harvard... then it may be worth ruling that school out, even if it costs less, or is quicker, or less stressful than the others.

monkeybb

I absolutely agree with most of what this forum said. If you are guarantee spot at the medical school at PLUM, you can really enjoy the undergraduate program that the school provides. You don't want to into a competitive environment for another 4 years in order to get into a top medical school.

Temeraire

Thank you all so much for your viewpoints and advice. I am definitely taking them into consideration as to where I want to spend the next four years of my life (or even eight, in this case).

As of now, I am currently leaning towards the combined medical programs, none of which are "accelerated" (for those of you who were unfamiliar with the specific programs). So it's basically down to Brown PLME or USC Bacc/MD. I've visited both campuses and I'm having a difficult time parsing down the qualities I prefer at each school. Brown and USC are completely different flavors, in my opinion, and both have their perks and drawbacks.

Just to be safe, though, I will be visiting Harvard soon to evaluate if it's really worth all the trouble of being premed at one of the top institutions in the nation.

Again, thank you all.

zdzdjl

"i even know PLME's who have enrolled at harvard law school (deferring med school) and still kept their spot in the med school class"
PLME HPME & some other programs let you defer med school for 1~2 years to do some things you like to do(study aboard,travel,work..........),but you can't defer cz you want go to other med school.
check out this Brown PLME: please, only answer this question if you know what you are talking about. #5
"If you take the MCATs, Brown will look at them and consider rescinding your status the same as they would if your GPA is below a 3.0"
You need MCAT for apply out, that will jeopardize your med school spot.

h-bomber

If you're smart enough to get into PLME or Harvard, do you have ANY idea how hard it would be to score poorly enough that Brown would rescind your spot!?!?

pmyen

Am a faculty member at a top research medical school. Was formerly at HMS. Have advised a number of students with similar options. I would say it really depends upon many factors. How certain is the student about medicine as a career? What does the student want to accomplish in college? How much exploring does one want to do in college (in your case the visual arts)? Does the student mind being part of a small preprofessional cohort (within the university) vs. being part of a larger college community? And as someone has pointed out, what does one want to do with their M.D.? If someone is going into primary care, where he/she gets the degree does not matter so much. However, if someone is interested in academics and research, going to Harvard, taking the requisite courses (upper level science courses will be different than med school classes) and perhaps getting research training by doing a thesis, should land you into a top research medical school. Brown is a very good medical school but it is not research oriented. In fact, I would argue, on the basis of medical school research alone, USC is stronger than Brown. It is equavlent and maybe even be higher reputationally among residency program directors, especially once you apply outside NE. That does not address the undergrad component of the combined program nor the medical school curriculum of Brown vs. USC. Their may be curriculum features of one versus the other that are attractive to you, atlhough quite frankly, most students usually do not choose particular medical schools on the basis of curriculum. Given your interest in the visual arts, Brown PLME may be the best option. If you are interested in gaining some major research experience, Harvard and USC offer more opportunities. Last, I think you should ask yourself, how well do you handle stress and the small chance you may not get into medical school? I think is very likely you will get in as long as you maintain at least a B+ average at Harvard but competition will get tough as as the peak for boomer kids applying will happen when you apply to med school. I know a number of Harvard students who turned down Brown PLME, and all of them went on to fine medical schools. They also felt that had a real college experience, too. No specific recommendations but perhaps some questions to help guide you to arrive at your own decison.

ske293

Check out where the Brown Medical School graduates matched:
MD 2008 Match List
Out of 60-70 graduates or so, about 15-20 matched at what would be considered a top-notch residency program. For example, there is one person who matched at MGH in medicine, one at Hopkins in radiology, one in surgery at MGH, one in pediatrics at Boston Children's, one in medicine at Stanford, one in ophthalmology at Hopkins, one in orthopedics at Penn, one in medicine at Cornell, one in radiology at the Brigham, one in pediatrics at Stanford, one in radiation oncology at Penn, and a few more at slightly less prestigious programs.

At HMS, about half of the class (class size around 160-170) will match at a top program, perhaps a little more. Typically, there will be 10 in internal medicine matching at MGH and another 10-15 in internal medicine at BWH for starters. Other popular specialties include pediatrics, surgery, orthopedics, neurology, radiology, radiation oncology, dermatology, ophthalmology, psychiatry, and anesthesia. About half stay at Harvard teaching hospitals (some of which I would consider top-notch, e.g. BWH, MGH, Children's, Mass Eye and Ear, but not all), and other popular destinations are Stanford, Columbia, Hopkins, Penn, and Yale.

It is very possible to match at a top residency program coming out of Brown. But you would have to be near the top of the class. At HMS, you merely have to be in the upper half or third.

Just something to consider. This will be completely irrelevant if you just want to have that M.D. degree and practice solo. But coming out of a better residency program will help you get better jobs if you are planning to join a large practice or work in the academia.

dcircle

1) ske293 - HMS is obviously a great medical school, but this has little relavance to the discussion here since we're comparing harvard undergrad to the PLME. no one can assume that HMS is an option available to them. that being said, two or three PLME's matriculate to HMS each year.

2) zdzjdl - again, it's true that they don't recommend applying unless you intend to stay for the full 8 years--that makes a lot of sense. nonetheless, you are free to take the MCAT whenever you want. you are free to matriculate to another medical whenever you want--moreover, you will have all the resources and advising of the brown pre-med and PLME offices available to you if you choose to do so

tlon_verb

One thing to make note of -- VES classes, while amaaazing from what I hear and v. financially supportive of artists buying materials!, are usually during what I would call prime class times, and generally go on for much longer than a regular class. While, this is expected, but someone who isn't looking for THAT much of a commitment, it's a bit of a turn off.

On the other hand, we do have a few ceramics and figure drawing classes on campus, and some of the houses have pottery studios and dark rooms of their own.

Ultimately, it comes down to how certain it is you want to be a doctor. One of my blockmates who I thought was prepped and ready for the doctor-route has declared earlier in her sophomore year that she "isn't sure." And a lot of people at Harvard do pre-med and aren't bio/chem majors. (Keep in mind this is a packed course load.) For instance, I know this amazing social studies concentrator who's premed and just recently did the Boston Marathon!