Siriuss

^ Let me rephrase.
** Out of 100 people say 80 are overweight. (making up statistics at this point)
Say 12 are morbidly obese, 20 are certainly overweight, and 10 could probably use to lose a few pounds
However I know quite a few people (say the other 38) who are a little larger that aren't in anyway in danger of diabetes.
I mean yes eat healthy and exercise but the whole hype is causing eating disorders as well.
I feel that the overweight category is much too broad to be decided by a number.
My point is(which it seems was missed) is that image is important. But there is no way a number can say everything about you.
Perhaps I just live in a sheltered world but my public Highschool of 600 a class I wouldn't say a huge number of us are obese.
Some have a little extra poundage but they aren't about to get an illness from it
And some of the overweight is genetics too and having a slow metabolism.

IceQube

There are two issues.

One - the body image issues. It's part of the human condition. We want to feel superior. So "he's fat." She's "too skinny." Regardless of whether they have underlying medical conditions (e.g. obesity and anorexia). We might vilify Cora of As I Lay Dying, but Faulkner frankly presents a realistic view of whom we really are, whether we like to admit it or not.

Two - the actual medical issues. I believe that regulations on fast food and pop might be a good thing to deter people from high-caloric foods. But it's still going to be largely an individual's fight.

Cigarettes are taxed. People still smoke. I was at the gym yesterday, and there was a group of young, college-aged guys and girls. The water fountain was located next to the group. I tried to drink some water, but the smoke was so acrid that I could barely stand drinking the water; the smell made the water taste horrible (smell is linked with taste). Why do these people smoke? Rationally, it makes no sense. A cheap thrill for a possible lifetime of suffering. Not to mention the fact that they're hurting me as well.

It's the same thing with obesity, anorexia, and their related maladies. People can still choose to overeat, or to undereat. People can still choose to be lazy. And these people often end up costing society. Regulations might only shave off a few sales. But changing even these few lives is worth it.

FawkesGoldman

Look, if the media and culture embrace obesity (which seems to be happening; what was considered "fat" in 1960 was vastly different from what is considered "fat" today), an unhealthy behavior that decreases society's viability as a whole is coddled and even encouraged as "embracing your body". This isn't a well-reasoned or empirical argument; I'm tired of making factual arguments against choosing to be obese.

In response to IceQube's suggestion that junk food be taxed or restricted (or that's what I'm inferring, but I could be wrong), I cringe a little bit. It's an understandable plan of action in wake of the success of legal restrictions, taxation, and media campaigns against tobacco, but I just don't know how many vices we can legislate away before A) People stop caring and/or B) the rules actually become draconian, like Glenn Beck keeps screaming. At this point, it might be worth a shot, though.

People can smoke...in the gym? That's...stupid. I mean, I smoke on occasion and all, but that's just inconsiderate.

IceQube

The people - and fountains - were outside - but near - the gym.

enfieldacademy

the restriction doesn't seem so bad to me because it's just taking away things that were introduced which turned out to be harmful. plus, it would only be a generational restriction: the following generations that grew up without fast food wouldn't be bothered by it not being there.

restriction to the point of abolition is rather impractical though, and i'm not sure if anything less than that can really do that much. people aren't smoking because cigarettes are more expensive as much as they are not smoking because the social acceptability of smoking went down so much.

maybe the same thing will happen with fast food, but i kind of think the industries are too powerful and numerous to let it happen, along with people being less willing to condemn it.

AllergicToBs

It's also worth mentioning that healthier food tends to be more expensive than junk food. Those who are less fortunate have to rely on fast food and cheap, but unhealthy food to live, and it's unfortunate.

MutaRiSC

@AllergicToBs

"It's also worth mentioning that healthier food tends to be more expensive than junk food. Those who are less fortunate have to rely on fast food and cheap, but unhealthy food to live, and it's unfortunate."

-------------------------------------

This may be true to some extent but I think you mean organic foods when you mention "healthier food tends to be more expensive than junk food". Depending on where you live, vegetables and other healthy food can be purchased quite cheaply. You seem to think that the other food availible to people with low incomes is unhealthy.

It all comes down to consumer choice. This country was founded on the principle of personal liberty and when healthy options are widely accessible (as they are), the government doesn't have a need or a compunction to regulate unhealthy food. To do so would be overstepping the bounds that purposefully limit it's power.

IceQube

The government already regulates unhealthy food. For example, there is the Federal Meat Inspection Act, which tries to ensure that meat is not adulterated or contaminated.

So your point is that we should have a regressive government?

MutaRiSC

First off, congrats on the crafty argument intended to derail conservative thinking. After all, who in their right mind would want spoiled meat passed off as fit for consumption? Those durn corporations are willing to poison us all to make a buck. Thank God for capitalism, right?

On a serious note, I didn't argue that the government shouldn't regulate spoiled meat and the like. I simply argue that healthy foods are accesible to low income people who seek them out. I later digressed to explain that heavy handed methods and regulations designed to appeal to particular constituencies are improper. Was your intent to create a conservative boogeyman?

Or something like that. I'm already losing interest in this topic.


Last of all, progress isn't equal to improvement. I believe we should weigh the costs and benefits of all government actions and make judgement accordingly.



PS. Many thanks to regulation that my pork is not an adulterer. He really is a dear friend.

IceQube

Losing interest or losing ground?

----

On crafting successful arguments: try to make sure that your terms are well-defined.

Contaminated food is unhealthy.

Your argument was flawed from its conception due to your loose use of the phrase "unhealthy food."

MaineLonghorn

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Any more bickering or ad hominem attacks and I will close this thread.

PieceofToast

Why do we compare weight? Because it's in our nature. Weight as a number makes it easy to compare and draw generalizations. Weigh more? Fat. Weigh less? Skinny (whore). And then your brain's done. They're packaged away into their pigeonhole and you can get on with other important brainy thoughts. That's why. We quantify, rank, judge, and file away. It's natural for your brain to find patterns and fit things into it accordingly. Keeps your mental files organized.

Ideally, everyone would realize that what matters is how their body looks, not how much it weighs. I know girls that range from, say, 90 lbs to 135 or so. They all look great. But they're built very, very differently. But the problem is that it's harder to compare appearances overall. Hence the 1-10 hotness scale. ...Or weight. It's right there, and it's easy to say "Less is good!" even if it isn't.

For what it's worth, the societal definition of ideal, once upon a time, was actually to be fat and pale, when most work was outdoors and when food was hard to come by. To be able to sit indoors and eat your fill of food? That was the idle rich. Then work came inside and agriculture industrialized, so now it's a luxury to eat small, freshly-cooked, hand-prepared meals and then go outside and bum around all day by running or biking or whatever. So now perfect people are tan and skinny. So people strive for that instead. Unhealthy, only in the other direction. If the ideal is skinny, then it's obviously better to be skinnier. ...Only it's not.

It's actually pretty interesting.

Also! It's impossible to win arguments on the internet, ladies and gentlemen. That's the other important lesson for the evening.

Although the taxes on fast food and pop are a bit dumb, in my opinion. They're food, so I'd make the case that they'd be a regressive tax, since all purchased meals are already hit with sales tax, and adding another tax to one of the cheapest sources of food around doesn't seem quite right. Just my two cents.

MaineLonghorn

Weight IS only a number, but being too heavy is a health issue. You can calculate your Body Mass Index (BMI) to see where you fall: Calculate Your BMI - Standard BMI Calculator As this site explains, the BMI "may overestimate body fat in athletes and others who have a muscular build," - just don't rationalize that you're an athlete because you run 15 miles a week! For the vast majority of Americans, the BMI is a helpful tool. I finally got my BMI below 25, although I need to lose more weight before I feel comfortable with where I am.

JimboSteve

^The CDC used to tell me I was obese because it's stupid, but as I grew older, stayed the same height, and gained ten pounds, it started telling me I was overweight. And now I am healthy. Stupid CDC.

kathryn6422

I was at my doctor last week. I have always been the 110th percentile in terms of height and weight. According to my BMI, I am overweight. I do not have an athlete's build. But I do have a large frame. Yes, that is a real thing. So many people think it's just the 'big bones' excuse that 'fat' people like to use. It's not. I don't know where I'm going with that but yeah. I have huge bones and a lot of times, I hate to weigh more than my similar-looking friends. It makes me feel embarrassed and insecure, even though I know I'm fine. I also hate how a lot of people will want to compare weights and I'm like 'NO. I'm 6 inches taller than you. This is invalid!' Okay I really have no idea where this is going, just kind of ranting. /pleasedontbelastposter