NYT: Congratulations it's an honor, you're invited...It's a sales pitch! - Page 2

mckyle9423 · 04-20-2009, 11:38 AM

I went to JrNYLC, and it was great... went on a full scholarship, too. Can't really agree with the article :P

roshke · 04-20-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Susan Garrity Ardizzoni, director of undergraduate admissions at Tufts, says students whom she would hardly consider leadership material have received the invitations. In recent years, she has seen more applications from students citing attendance at these workshops as an achievement.

“But this doesn’t really give them any advantage,” she says. “For us, activities or essays are most meaningful for students where there’s an established track record or interest.”

Eric J. Furda, the dean of admissions at the University of Pennsylvania, says that “the real depth to this in a highly selective process is: How has this shaped or influenced you? And your ability to articulate that.”

“For each opportunity, there will be a context or the deeper meaning,” he adds. “Where are you coming from, or where are you going with this experience?”

This is completely consistent with what I've said in the past - if you've done a program like this and it's in context of an area of interest that you've pursued, and/or you can do a good job of describing its impact on you - it can be a positive. In and of itself though , it's clearly not. I do object to the marketing, however. Sounds like the inauguration week did not give participants the advertised access - that may have been a legitimate glitch. All in all, I thought this was a pretty balanced and fair article.

RhapsodyinPink · 04-20-2009, 01:54 PM

It's funny that they mentioned People to People. I remember receiving those in middle school and really wanting to go- I even went to several of the info sessions, but my parents couldn't afford it, so I never had the chance.

Momzie · 04-20-2009, 01:59 PM

I'm concerned because in our area the only kids I know of who have gone on these are:
1. first generation college attenders whose parents are taken in by the rhetoric and worry that their kids will be losing out if they don't attend
2. Kids of recent immigrants whose parents also seem to overvalue the results of these programs.

That to me does seem predatory. The kids I know who have gone on these programs are overwhelmingly working class and in each case the parents seem to feel that it's a ticket to Harvard. I have this feeling that these may be many of the same people who've been taken in by predatory mortgage and loan companies.

And FWIW, the ones that they send your kids where the conference or seminar is basically a ten-day trip to Europe? The foreign service people loathe having to brief these groups at the embassies -- mostly because the kids tend to be ill-prepared, way too young to appreciate a program like this, and because the person doing the briefing is required to act like it's a serious academic program when it's not.

BTW, every member of our family, including our dog was invited to the People to People program this year. We won't be going . .

starbright · 04-20-2009, 04:18 PM

The same can be said for the whole "summer program" industry really, with just some exceptions.

I think there are literally thousands of summer programs can be great if a) parents can afford it b) the parents and kids know exactly what they are getting for the money and c) the kids get something great out of the experience. What I object to is misleading advertising that implies the product is something it is not. Sure people get fooled-- if they didn't, such questionable practices would not be used. Sure it's buyer beware and I'm not about to suggest regulation, but it doesn't make it any less unethical.

To give an example, I know some kids from immigrant families (and this is also true for the many who live outside the US and want to go to US schools), who are sending their kids to top universities for a summer program, actually believing it would help them with admissions to that school. But the only thing in common between this particular summer program and the university is that the summer program RENTS SPACE from the university. There is no connection whatsoever. The 'faculty' are a bunch of people without any college teaching experience if you dig deeper. This may all be obvious to savvy parents on CC, but not to many others it seems. It's why camps renting facilities at the top schools can charge huge amounts more than those hosting the same kind of thing at a lesser known school.

I am sure in most cases the kids will have a blast, as they would at any live-away summer camp or travel experience with other teens. Whether it will educate them or give them some kind of leg up (which is what the parents often think they are paying for) is a different matter.

al6200 · 04-20-2009, 07:06 PM

Yeah, but why does it cost so much? Programs like girls/boys state cost less than $1,000 if I recall correctly. I went to very nice boy scout camps for under $500. I see no reason why a youth leadership thing should cost more than $2,000, tops.

I mean, tuition for a real private university for one year (like 30 weeks) is rarely more than $50,000. So for one week, it shouldn't cost any more $1,700. And that's being REALLY generous to these programs. There's no reason why their programs should cost more than a real university program.

So yes, if they are more than $2,000 they are probably scams.

BtheB44 · 04-20-2009, 07:47 PM

In my experience, they are somewhat of a scam if you don't realize what they are when you sign up, but people I know have enjoyed them. However, there are some similar programs that are real honors. For instance, the US Senate Youth Program is funded by the William Randolph Hearst Foundation (all expenses paid + a $5000 scholarship) and is an amazing experience, but, as a real honor, there is an extensive application process. I know that there are some other honors/internships that you can get if you're recommended by your congressperson, or if you just apply.

teamam · 04-20-2009, 08:57 PM

Anything with YLC or LC in it is the best! love it. makes me feel so happy. yay

Eternal Icicle · 04-21-2009, 12:11 AM

People to People was really expensive. I went on one of their summer programs for high school students and did several garage sales and solicited donations from my relatives and any clubs they belong to before reaching the needed amount. It was the first time I got to travel, and we were accompanied by actual teachers. I got several course credits from EWU out of it too (not that I'll wind up using them now).

However, I did Girls State the year after, which is free if you get the legion to sponsor you, and the admissions officers I interviewed with all cared much more about this than People to People, which I've heard referred to as a "rich kids tour Europe" program.

Mom4X · 04-21-2009, 12:21 AM

Okay, I HATE getting letters from friend's kids asking to support their extra curricular $$$
"activities." (Like those mentioned above.)

StevenSeagal · 04-21-2009, 12:40 AM

Lol I keep getting crap from Lead America

Eternal Icicle · 04-21-2009, 02:02 AM

I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way, Mom4x. Fortunately, some people don't mind at all and are happy to write a check, even if it's a small one.

Momzie · 04-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Why would you pay for someone else's child to tour Europe, Eternal? Am I missing something here?

Light Airen · 04-21-2009, 05:17 PM

haha im glad the NYT wrote this article. props to them.

seriously, i just get one lousy 213 on my PSATs this year and i get bombarded by all of these BS letters saying how "great" i am.. yeah right.

cptofthehouse · 04-21-2009, 07:29 PM

We have gotten these things, and I know a number of families who have sent their kids on those junkets. I would love to send my youngest on one of those things. Just too expensive for our family.

The problem I have with these things is that they are packaged and marketed to the students and family as a great honor to be invited and a shining mark on your record. If you look at it as summer learning trip, which is it what it is, if you can afford it, it's a wonderful experience. From what I have heard, the kids are well chaperoned and the activities well planned. Quite the learning experience. I just have a problem with the cost.