The Official CC Debate Thread! - Page 2

theReach · 11-04-2009, 09:53 PM

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A bit of a logical jump there.

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Yeah because life would be so much better if we didn't have FREE WILL and God just controlled us. I love how people blame a supreme being for their own problems. Jeez, guys, just because life isn't perfect doesn't mean that it is totally random.

Yeah, you two are just so qualified to be criticizing Epicurus' philosophy. Why don't you go argue against Aristotle and Plato's teachings while you're at it.

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I found that to be curious considering America is composed of 99% religious people.

No. 20% of Americans are irreligious.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 10:02 PM

^Where are you getting that percentage? I just looked it up and I got 1%(atheist). The highest that I could find was 6%(atheist).

romanigypsyeyes · 11-04-2009, 10:12 PM

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

According to that, 16-17%.
And just because someone says they're a particular religion doesn't mean they are practicing in the least. So I'd easily double that figure for who is actually nonreligious.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 10:14 PM

Hmm...I guess so. Regardless though, I think I have only seen 3 other people who are religious on here. One would think that there would be more.

theReach · 11-04-2009, 10:20 PM

Maybe try a more recent year next time? 2009 ARIS (American Religious Identification Survey) poll: 12% of all Americans are atheist or agnostic, and 12% of all Americans are deistic.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 10:23 PM

I guess haha, I just typed the phrase in and looked at the results. O well, thanks for the link.

applicannot · 11-04-2009, 10:23 PM

Well, I think it's a study somewhere that the higher level of education a person achieves, the less likely he or she is to be religious. So, at each level of higher education achieved, the number of nonreligious or atheist people increases. This makes sense logically. The more you are exposed to the world, the more likely you are to question your beliefs. If Christians claim that God is the only God, how can Allah be claimed by the Muslims to also be the only God? Faith answers this, but religion does not. Therefore the more highly educated a person is, the more likely they abandon religion for faith or spirituality (nonreligious) or they embrace atheism or agnostic atheism (apathetic weak theism, or whatever name it's going by these days).

theReach · 11-04-2009, 10:28 PM

@applicannot The same goes for political beliefs. The higher level of education a person achieves, the more likely they will be a liberal, too. The fact that the professors at nonreligious schools are pretty much all flaming liberals doesn't hurt, either.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 10:31 PM

I can't imagine that that applies to everyone though. There are plenty of intellectual people that believe in God. Perhaps the number is just reduced? What other outlook do those that aren't religious take to compensate for their lack of belief? I could ponder this question for years. I suppose it's all about perception. What's real and true to you remains to be that way.

Also, does time and adaptation have an influence?

applicannot · 11-04-2009, 11:03 PM

That's why I said "some" and "more likely" rather than "all" and "definitely." I don't need to "compensate" for my lack of belief. I believe that religion - especially the afterlife - was invented to quell and control the people. I don't want it or need it. But some nonreligious people are spiritual.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 11:12 PM

Hmm...I find it interesting that (from my experience) people who are religious seem to be more content than those who aren't. Does the issue go beyond that though? It seems that those who possess intellect have a tendency to lead less content lives. I suppose(switching to an alternative topic) that the more educated one is, the less happy they are. Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone believe it is worth it? Personally, I do; intellect and knowledge in general intrigue me and it's something I would be willing to suffer for. I suppose I'm just pondering this though. What about you guys?

sg12 · 11-05-2009, 12:48 AM

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Yeah, you two are just so qualified to be criticizing Epicurus' philosophy. Why don't you go argue against Aristotle and Plato's teachings while you're at it.

@theReach, you're right, I'm sorry. I guess I should apologize for hating on Ptolemy for thinking the universe isn't geocentric since, you know, I'm no astronomer. Yikes.

Whan · 11-05-2009, 01:31 AM

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Hmm...I find it interesting that (from my experience) people who are religious seem to be more content than those who aren't. Does the issue go beyond that though? It seems that those who possess intellect have a tendency to lead less content lives. I suppose(switching to an alternative topic) that the more educated one is, the less happy they are. Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone believe it is worth it? Personally, I do; intellect and knowledge in general intrigue me and it's something I would be willing to suffer for. I suppose I'm just pondering this though. What about you guys?

Here's my opinion about religion. I'd love to believe in something of that sort, but I am (through my upbringing, skepticism, etc.) unable to really believe in theological beliefs. I'd love to believe that there's a larger than life purpose (hah, get it?), but it's really hard for me to believe. Instead, I tend to just assume at the end of my life, I'll be bored, and so I shouldn't be sad.

About the intellect thing, you know what they say - Ignorance is bliss. Would it suck knowing that the world would end tomorrow? Yeah, no doubt. But would I want to know? Probably. And so yeah, many people give up happiness in exchange for knowledge and vice versa. People are happy when they can place their faith in a "happy place". It's mostly because the world is worse than most people would like to believe. That's why knowledge = less happiness usually.

ThisCouldBeHeavn · 11-05-2009, 02:30 AM

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What about the people living on remote islands or in tribes in jungles who have never heard of "The Bible" or God? Do they just go automatically to hell, just because they've never heard of Him?

No, it doesn't say that anywhere in the bible...

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Yeah, you two are just so qualified to be criticizing Epicurus' philosophy. Why don't you go argue against Aristotle and Plato's teachings while you're at it.

That cute little poem hardly counts as deep philosophical writing.

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If Christians claim that God is the only God, how can Allah be claimed by the Muslims to also be the only God?

Perhaps worth noting here that Christianity and Islam have similar roots => same God.

theReach · 11-05-2009, 02:41 AM

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@theReach, you're right, I'm sorry. I guess I should apologize for hating on Ptolemy for thinking the universe isn't geocentric since, you know, I'm no astronomer. Yikes

Flawed logic for comparing Ptolemy, who is a Roman astronomer, with ancient Greek philosophers. Flawed logic for comparing astronomy, a science, which can be proven wrong, with philosophy, which cannot. Nice try, though.

PS for "hating" on Ptolemy for accomplishing so much with such scientific constraints, you have what CS Lewis calls "chronological snobbery". I'd cure it, Kanye.