The Official CC Debate Thread!

analogous · 11-04-2009, 12:17 AM

So let's start a debate thread. I'll pick the first topic and from there we can branch off into different sub-topics and eventually the overall topic will change. Let's move away from these statistical chance threads and really get into the philosophy of our CC'er minds!

OK, so God stirs up many debates; we have so many people with so many different beliefs on this topic its always interesting to see what these people have to say. I believe God to some extent just because i honestly doubt science will ever be able to prove logically where that initial starting point came from. It basically narrows down to proving "something" can come from absolutely nothing (unimaginable), which is just impossible. The universe has a creator and that's that. Science seems to be able to explain so many things with high intricacy, but there's a big hole in the "where this universe came from" slot.

(P.S. for the sack of arguing, try going against what you believe at times...keep in mind this isn't exactly what i believe)

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 12:21 AM

I made one of these...it wasn't very popular though

Let's make this one last!

What are you asking? haha
Who do we believe is the creator?

analogous · 11-04-2009, 12:23 AM

Haha, I'm debating that God exists and it's science that fails to prove otherwise; not religion failing to prove his existence.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 12:27 AM

Well, religion is a belief, so it can't be proven. Science must be proven in order to support a fact or statement. If it can't prove how the earth and its inhabitants were created, than it isn't validated. I believe that God is the creator and science can't state otherwise. (I should also note that I'm religious haha)

seanoh · 11-04-2009, 01:59 AM

why do you think god is your creator?

tomjonesistheman · 11-04-2009, 03:06 AM

the purpose of life is to die.

applicannot · 11-04-2009, 10:03 AM

I don't believe in a supreme being, but I won't rule out a higher power. I'm also anti-religious and pro-belief.

However, I do think that something can come from nothing. Humans are incredibly concrete, finite beings. Think about it this way: say the human lifespan is 100 years. So when a fly lives for only twenty-four hours, we think wow, that's really short! And then we think of a turtle or an oak tree, and we're like, wow, that's a long time! Now imagine that life in a galaxy far far away lives for 1,000,000,000,000 years. To them, 100 years is barely the blink of an eye. They'd say wow, how do they live their life in that span of time? Time is relative.

So, by default, our concept and understanding of time is limited. Now, let's talk about space. Space is probably infinite. What is infinite? It's nothing something you can really imagine. You can think about it deeply, and you can be awe-inspired by it, but it's not something you can grasp - that's the point. That's especially true for non-science humans like me, who can hardly grasp the distance from here to the sun and probably don't think about it on a daily basis. I don't know what's happening 1000 miles from my home. What's happening 1000 universes from here? Is the space empty or full? This is another concept that humans can't imagine, and no amount of science is ever going to explore the depths of infinity. It's impossible by definition: humans are limited.

Thirdly, in the human world, we only study and witness those interactions which we can see, feel, hear, taste, smell, witness, interpret, study, and put away for future understanding. Something has to come from something else because that's how it works on earth. How could something just appear? I say, why not? Humans are so finite and limited that we believe everything must have a beginning and an ending. What if the world - the universe - space - was already HERE? Who's to say two particles had to magically appear - what if they have always been here? This is difficult to grasp, given human limits. It would be difficult for me to understand. But who's to say the universe had to "start?" I say, it was already here. It has been for an infinite amount of time, evolving over hundreds of billions of trillions of millions of septillion of years - spans of time that can't even be measured with a human system because there is NO BEGINNING.

Because humans can't fully grasp infinity (and neither can I, but I can talk about the concept), we have to make up something that helps us to explain how everything started and how everything will end. Thousands of years ago they made up stories about fertility and the flooding of the Nile; they attributed Gods to it. Eventually we'll know more and more, but what it comes down to is that we won't be able to explain something that goes beyond the scope of our understanding: infinity. Some say God made the world. I ask, how did God get here? If God has always been here, why couldn't the world have always been here?

^_^ v_v · 11-04-2009, 10:51 AM

if he exists, god is a cruel, sadistic beast.

ThisCouldBeHeavn · 11-04-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Because humans can't fully grasp infinity (and neither can I, but I can talk about the concept), we have to make up something that helps us to explain how everything started and how everything will end. Thousands of years ago they made up stories about fertility and the flooding of the Nile; they attributed Gods to it. Eventually we'll know more and more, but what it comes down to is that we won't be able to explain something that goes beyond the scope of our understanding: infinity.

Seems strange to think that if humans were troubled by their inability to comprehend infinity, their solution would be to conceive something even more infinite.

romanigypsyeyes · 11-04-2009, 01:50 PM

"If God is willing to prevent evil but is unable to,
Then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able but not willing,
Then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing,
Then whence cometh evil?
If He is neither able nor willing,
Then why call Him God?" -Epicurus

ThisCouldBeHeavn · 11-04-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

If He is able but not willing,
Then He is malevolent.

A bit of a logical jump there.

sg12 · 11-04-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

If He is able but not willing,
Then He is malevolent.

Yeah because life would be so much better if we didn't have FREE WILL and God just controlled us. I love how people blame a supreme being for their own problems. Jeez, guys, just because life isn't perfect doesn't mean that it is totally random.

Damon1570 · 11-04-2009, 07:50 PM

ive wondered this:

What about the people living on remote islands or in tribes in jungles who have never heard of "The Bible" or God? Do they just go automatically to hell, just because they've never heard of Him?

Evolution is a tricky point too.

Wartsandall · 11-04-2009, 07:55 PM

^No one can be certain, but I would like to believe that those who haven't been exposed to God would still go to Heaven. However, the same fate doesn't apply to those who have become affiliated or in recognition of God who choose not to follow the belief. (Wow, this is an intricate discussion. I wonder if it will ever change haha)

Also, has anyone else noticed that the majority of people here are atheist? I found that to be curious considering America is composed of 99% religious people.

dunbar · 11-04-2009, 08:09 PM

Not that I'm against God debates, but when you use God as a starting point you should know that the topic will never evolve into something else.