Pearl

As an RN, I'll just add my two cents:

A nursing degree prepares you how to carry out doctors orders and do minimal assessments - what is missing is the "why/how". Not that nurses don't want to know, it's just that quite literally, not a lot of time is spent on discussing/learning those objectives.

Now to put it in persective, often the doc will know what he/she wants to do to a patient, but won't have a clue as to how to carry that procedure out themselves (because "that's something nurses do" - I've seen this first hand with IVs and foleys - it's not rocket science, but perhaps these docs just missed that day or never had the experience to begin with other than the experience of writing the order.) When this becomes a problem (for the patient) is when the doc writes orders that are not practical for that particular patient due to unusual circumstances. Practicing medicine is more than barking orders - it's caring for real people with real, unique situations.

So, can nurses do well in medical school? Sure if they are dedicated, serious students.Most nurses have had temendous patient care experience and are quite comfortable with the public (something many docs lack). And can a doc learn how to be a nurse.....well, maybe. (that's a little joke, of course).

Just one thing to check on- sometimes the chemistry courses in college for nurses are not the same chemistry classes for, say, biology or chemistry majors - one applying might need to check to make sure that they had the correct undergrad requirements for medical school admission.

bluedevilmike

Now remember that BRM is describing the kids who are absolutely the best and the brightest. Kids who go to college tend to be pretty bright; kids who decide to be premed are yet a little bit brighter; premeds who survive the first three years with their career plans intact are quite a bit brighter than that. Of that pool, now (those who take the MCAT), only 1/4 of them will ever make it into medical school.

Of those kids, BRM scored extremely well on the MCAT, putting him considerably past the VAST majority of them.

So when he tells you that he's studying 8 hours a night, remember that this is coming from a guy who has a stronger track record than most med students.

Bigredmed

Well thanks for the compliments BDM...I wouldn't say I'm that smart (which med school is continually reminding me of)...I do well on standardized tests, but I've never had great grades compared to a lot people (classic "doesn't live up to potential" comments have followed me everywhere). But I do agree that anyone getting into medical school is an extremely bright individual, and all deserve that recognition.

And my grades certainly are no where near the top of my med school class (or even the middle). For instance today I wanted to put in 8 hours, only put in about 4, and while I think I'm getting sick and blaming that...I still would have only hit about 6 given the time it is now...I think I may have ADD or something b/c I'm physically incapable of studying like some of my friends and colleagues do.

ergin

so its not only mcat that the med schools look at ? what else ?

bluedevilmike

look at... to determine admission?

Grades. Undergrad program. Letters of recommendation. Extracurriculars. Essays. Application timing. Interviews. Research. Academic honors. Life circumstances. Race. Geography. Gender. Future career plans. Publications. Community service. Clinical exposure. Photographs. Family medical tradition. Citizenship. And more.

T0N1CH1

lol what if you're not a citizen but an immigrant?

bluedevilmike

Citizenship is helpful, and practically a requirement for public schools. Even after admissions, your financing will be very different if you're not a US Citizen or permanent resident.

PR status is, apparently, the same as citizenship in both respects.

OpiefromMayberry

Bigred,

So on most days including classtime on average 8-10 hours? Like a job.. yes?

Mine is just getting his secondaries for med schools. I figure he can handle it and still have some fun here and there. Don't tell me your life is without some fun?

pencilpusher

Some parts of medical school were hard. some weren't so hard. It kind of depended on what year you were in, what classes you were taking then or which clinical rotations you were on.

In any given med school class (I presume in any, certainly in mine), there are some people who are the most incredible grinds. Studied bascially 24/7. They generally got honors. The rest of us just decided to have a life. When I was at Cornell med we were graded P/F/H. Other than that no grades. All grades were curved in that the top 10 people in any class would get honors, everyone else got a P unless you really did bad in which case you got an F. Our second year the pharmacology department decided to not grade on a curve and just give an "H" to anyone who got a 90%. Well just about everyone got a 90% so we all got an H in pharm. This basically showed that all of us were completely capable of mastering the material if we choose to do so. Frankly, in the other curved classes if you din't get a 95% you didn't get an H. So why bother. an 80% was just as good as a 90%.

If you get into medical school, it's not that the subject matter will be too difficult for you. The issue is the curve and the amount of pain certain people are willing to endure.

bluedevilmike

Of course BRM has fun. He spends time on CC! What could be more fun than that?

Bigredmed

Opie, I'd say that 8-10 is pretty common. A lot will depend on the type of curriculum the school your son ends up attending uses.

My school uses the core system for the basic sciences and so we have 4 hours of science every morning and then most monday and wednesdays, have another 2-3 hours of "how to be a doctor" type lectures - doing a physical exam, taking a history, dealing with different patient populations, ethics, so on. For example our lectures today were about Medical Malpractice and about gifts from the Pharmaceutical industry. Basically b/c we have 4 hours every day of very specific science it means we have a test in the basic sciences every 3 weeks. My friends at other schools however have course schedules much more like undergrad though in which they are taking biochem and anatomy and histology, clinical practice and genetics all at the same time. They have more time in class, but less frequent tests. So it's a trade off.

So today was 6 hours of lecture, and because I have yet to do much of anything this week, probably a couple of hours of reading, and some time working on a community health project that's due in a couple weeks (sadly getting to medical school has not meant an end to writing papers). So it'll probably be about 10 hours today. Tomorrow, only 4 hours of lecture, and I doubt I'll get much more than an hour of studying due to some other obligations and errands I have.

And yes there is some fun, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I studied ALL the time. I have to do something. Mainly it's dependent on how far away a test is. We had a test last friday, and I went out friday night, went to a huge halloween party my class threw for students in all the programs on Saturday, and then last night went over to some friend's apartment to watch monster movies. Given that we just had a test, I've spent more time with a drink in my hand than with a book this week. But in two weeks or so my daily routine will be extremely different. Student health at my school actually puts down in the charts that med students have "M1/M2 drinking habits" which the docs know means extended periods of sobriety punctuated by bouts of bacchanalian excess.

And then of course there is CC...

And pharm is currently the ire of my being...I really hate rote memorization...

OpiefromMayberry

Thanks,

So if you had the habits in place (studies and partying in balance) in undergrad chances are pretty good you'll be able to do the same in med school, yes?

What school are you at again? and what ones did you look at and how were your interviews?

Mine is looking at UW, Oregon's med school, Wisc, Mich, St. Louis, Darthmouth and one other. Any crossover with yours?

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with a doctor having a drink.

bluedevilmike

Hello,

While I don't mean to incite a panic, do know that this timing for secondaries is getting a little bit on the late side and that working promptly on them would probably provide a noticeable benefit. This will be especially important for the more selective schools on her list, which include the generally selective ones as well as the out-of-state ones.

I want to mention that the "light" portions of medical school are considerably harder than anything I ever went through as an undergrad - but that probably has a lot to do with my personal thought processes not being very well suited to medical school.

pencilpusher

I would say yes. It all depends on your attitude.

There is going to be more studying and less partying overall, but it's not all awful, even though there are some parts that are truly awful (think internal med rotation, every third night on call, need to go home at 2:00 am and look up info about the cases to present the next day.)

And to all meds students: if you think med school is bad, I hate to tell you but in internship you will be looking back fondly at medical school (assuming you are actually awake) and wonder why you thought it was so bad, lol.

And at times in real life, as a doc, you will also look back on medical school (but not on on internship) and think you really had no clue what the meaning of work was.

bluedevilmike

Yes, so I've been told. And I find it very believable. And it worries me.