danas

It seems that some peoples' objections to home schooled kids is that they don't conform to the norm.
What price do kids in traditional schools have to pay for their smooth "fitting in"?
How many adults would submit to jobs where they were not allowed to talk to their co-workers? Where they had to seek permission to move their bowels? Where they had to shuffle from room to designated room at the sound of a bell?
When my kids were in school, I couldn't understand why they came home with un-eaten lunches. I finally understood that that was the only time they were allowed to talk to each other. Our public high school plays marches on the intercom at full volume between classes. They don't want the students to interact. Chicago, Illinois, USA.
Not Jonestown. Not North Korea. "Happiness Through Work"?

dis-grace

Logos: I don't see how any of us have been arrogant. We are stating that sometimes it works well, which is all we want people to recognize. It's insulting to be put in a group called "You're all anti-social dumb****s" which is what several people in this thread have basically done. You aren't attacking THEIR examples of anti-social kids, but you attack our examples of well-adjusted kids from a homeschooling environment? Why? Because we're the easier side to go after? Sure, getting into a top university doesn't *necessarily* mean anything -- but neither does the blown up claim that "some dude on the internet has only known weird homeschoolers, and therefore all homeschoolers must be weird because He Says So." Why don't you demand suitable evidence from the traditional schoolers?

Oh. Because, when it comes to human beings, YOU CAN'T. Examples of norms + examples of individuals are all we can go on in psychology. We base a huge amount of psychology on theories based on variable groups of people and their averages. Maybe homeschoolers, on average, are idiots. Maybe they aren't. Maybe our proverbial study-takers here simply haven't noticed the "normal" ones. And maybe you shouldn't get annoyed when people step forward and offer themselves as case studies.

tennisgal89

Well I personally am against homeschooling. I'm sure for some people it works fine, but for the majority of homeschoolers, there is a lack of structure, instruction, and interaction with peers. Has anyone ever seen "Wife Swap" or "Trading Spouses"? Often times they have children on there who are WAY below the intelligence level they should be at and are unmotivated and unfocused. It looks like a joke. One has to have an extremely high rate of self-determination to actually achieve in situations like that. The reason why so few homeschooled people on here have anything to say about it is because these people are exceptions and are smart...I'm sure the majority of homeschooled kids are still sleeping right now, seeing as it is a school day.

tennisgal89

**One wife swap or trading houses the kids are homeschooled

tokenadult

Oh, yeah, I'm sure most college-educated people form their opinions about social policy by watching reality TV shows.

/irony

Mohuohu

maributt, I'm shocked.

if that's your real opinion....


it is absolutely essential for kids to get out into the world and formulate their own value system, with assistance from family, friends, school, and life in general. parents that pretend like their beliefs are the only valid ones simply brainwash their children and deprive them of the rich childhood everyone deserves.

it is essential for every person to learn to challenge what they are taught and told, and to experiance as many different perspectives as possible. that's simply not possible in a homeschool environment.

dis-grace

"that's simply not possible in a homeschool environment."

There is no such thing as one homeschool environment. I recognize that many homeschool environments are not good, but there are certainly *some* that include learning to challenge what they are taught and told as well as experiencing different perspectives. Maybe it's the minority. I don't honestly know. But I know that it does SOMETIMES include those things, and it's unfair to say it's impossible across the board. Some homeschoolers actually believe their situation has exposed them to more diversity than a traditional school environment, and if they say that's the situation they experience, we should believe those particular people until they prove otherwise.

maributt

i don't like being judged like some caged animal by spectators - a homeschooler is (in most cases) a mentally sound person just like you.

when i insist that homeschooling has been immensely good for me, i'm not an insane person, convinced of his sanity - i have struggled with it just as many struggle with public schooling.

i'm also not the product of conniving parents eager to carbon copy their worldviews onto their spawn - my parents want the best for me, just like everyone else's.

on another note: i've summarized the arguments for and against homeschooling thus far so that you'll stop repeating things hopefully:

On the side of: Homeschooling should be banned and the children taken to foster homes: (several arguments were repeated)
-It keeps them from having real school friends and teacher friends
-It's tougher and require much determination (could go either way) x 2
-They should have a choice (i.e. they should be able to experience both, then choose) x 2
-Friggin weird + no social skills whatsoever/Social retardation x countless
-Shelter from non-Christian ideas instead of free exchange of ideas x 4
-Can't possibly know more than a teacher about what you should learn
-Life interaction can't be taught at home
-"Unefficient" + Closing eyes to reality
-Brainwashing
-They tattle / are offended by PG-13 movies
-They are arrogant and use ad hominem arguments
-WAY below normal intelligence levels - the smart ones are exceptions...

alright, i'm not summarizing the other side...

to tell you the truth, these arguments seem very stupid after reading all of them

Anhydrosis2000

Logos, did you read your post before you pressed the send button?

"I don't suppose anyone here can grasp this, but just maybe, getting into a top university doesn't really suggest any semblance of intellect."

"Really, ad hominem (a fallacy that attacks the person rather than the issue at hand) isn't the way to go."

Didn't you just attack a whole group of people at the start of your post and end it with an admonotion not to use personal attacks?

Yes, I believe many people believe that getting into a top university does, in fact, suggest a "semblance of intellect." And whoever said USNews was the "leading authority"? It is, however, something most people on this post are familiar with. Perhaps, I should have cited a Newsweek article showing the higher performance of homeschoolers on standardized test scores and success in college.

Mohuohu

high test scores do not a scholar make.

Anhydrosis2000

Mohuohu, I don't understand your point. Where does it say that high test scores make a "scholar"? I assume you are using the definition of "scholar" as a "learned person." Can you expound on your point?

romanigypsyeyes

I think he means that test scores don't always correctly measure a person's intellectual ability. Some average people can get phenomenal scores, while those who are very bright academically may get average scores, but it doesn't necessarily gauge their true academic potential.

A.S.A.P.

I wish I had homeschooled my daughter for the first few years, Kindergarten through third or fourth grade. She had a fabulous 5th grade teacher that I'm so glad she didn't miss, but before that, she would not have missed anything positive that I can think of in our public school. I have a teaching credential(K-8) myself, and she was several grades ahead academically, which actually made her classroom experience more difficult- and often very frustrating- than it would have been had she been a more typical kid. I didn't have the courage to take her out, as I listened to people telling me she'd miss out on the social skills. But there were many days - more than I care to remember- where her early classroom experience actually did her harm. She really didn't like school very much until high school, when her intense focus and independent learning style became an asset. Those first few years were so anxiety producing for her, and it was all so unnecessary.

I certainly understand why people homeschool their kids. I believe that most parents, if they are caring and intelligent, know what's in their child's best interest. If they listen to their child and their gut, they are usually right about what setting is most appropriate.

Anniushka

It's my bedtime, so I am not going to step into this mess--except to say the following:

At my high school there are--or have been in recent years--5 students who are either attending top-5 universities, have been accepted by said universities, or are of the academic and personal caliber for acceptance to etc. etc. The rest of the students, except for maybe two, will do the exact same thing for college as everyone else (ie, apply to Western WA University or--if they're feeling really adventurous--UW), or they won't go to college at all. (Only 40% of graduates of my high school go on to a four-year college.)

And... of the five stellar students, all of them were homeschooled for much of their school careers. They are unique, memorable people... maybe "friggin weird," by some people's standards, but very interesting and interested in many things. And they're all very nice, too. And social.

I know that there are some disfunctional (by my standards) homeschool situations, but it's certainly and entirely the parents' fault, not that of the institution of homeschooling.

Irishmomof2

I'm not a homeschooler, but most of the homeschoolers I know are perfectly normal kids who, for a variety of reasons, were not fitting in with a traditional public school. Most of them blossomed academically and socially once they were removed from the traditional school environment.

However, I do know one homeschooling family that I think chose poorly. They basically chose homeschooling out of fear, and their daughter's anxieties about other people have only increased since they pulled her out of school. I'm not saying her anxiety would decrease if she was in public school, but her parents have acknowledged and condoned the idea that other people are scary with their actions.