hoveringmom

Dana,
Thanks for the response. Yes, I agree that teaching credentials are not relevant; I only offered my own to say that I wouldn't need to hire a PhD student as I myself am at a higher level academically, having had stories and papers published in literary journals and magazines, as is my son's dad (I in English and he in Bio). Also there are a couple of things I do as someone who is experienced as a working teacher & tutor-- mainly I know how to ask the questions that help the student do the work; I usually insist on students actively doing the thinking and working and resist the temptation to 'tell' him/her an answer even when they don't understand at first; I nearly always give them clues that will still lead them to find the right answer themselves. Also I have a few tricks up my sleeve in helping the student use other methods of learning when they are stuck, such as drawing a picture or singing or dancing if they are stuck with getting a concept via reading. That I learned as a teacher. But you can already know that as a parent or a person.

But mainly I too believe you can not graduate high school and still be an excellent mentor for homeschooling--particularly if you have a certain kind of highly self-directed or focused or passionate child. It does help to have advanced knowledge in a certain area--for instance, I can direct my son to certain books and then have high level discussions with him that he wouldn't encounter until college or grad school. But if you can't do that - as I couldn't with history, say - that's ok. Again, particularly if your child is self-directed and curious and driven. THere are all sorts of resources out there.

You raise a valid point about whether I'd want college classes for my son for his own sake or in order to 'impress' admissions and it set me thinking. I think the answer is both. He is very interested in high level math and I wouldn't be able to provide that at all. It is also difficult to self-teach some of the concepts. But to be honest, yes, I want elite colleges to see he took elite math classes. I'm not sure htere's anything wrong with this. I am not well off and need him to get a scholarship if at all possible. In that sense, the math classes serve the dual purpose of educating him and opening his horizons, as well as helping him get a scholarship or get admitted. SO I think I'd still want him to do this.

Thanks once again--So, anybody out there who has had their child take college classes?

corey91

I've taken many classes through Dual Enrollment, I feel it has allowed me to experience a classroom setting and is much more suited to the level of learning I enjoy.

'rentof2

Hovingmom (love your screenname, btw), LOTS of homeschoolers take college classes. I live in an area where homeschooling is very popular, and nearly all the homeschooled kids I know who've gone on to 4-yr universities had taken college classes while still homeschooling/high school. In fact, around here at least it is quite rare for a homeschooled college-bound student to not do so.

The higher-achieving kids from the public high school often do so as well under dual enrollment programs such as Corey91 mentiond. (The univ. is just blocks away from the public high school here so it's very conveient to do so.)

I'm not sure what other information you're looking for. I know the cost is an issue for you, but there's no way to find out anything concrete about that without contacting the university/ies in your area and asking.

In any case, it's nothing unusual and as you read around on College Confidential over time you will see quite a few student who do this while still in high school. Does it look good to college admissions officers? I would assume so as it's in that same vein of "challenging" one's self with AP, IB, and college or college-level classes. Of course, as Danas points out, there are other ways (perhaps more creative ones) to challenge one's self. My son really enjoyed the college classes he took, including calculus. Mostly, though, it was the philosophy and political science classes that really turned him on.

hoveringmom

Thanks! When your kids took the college classes, did they opt for college credit as well? Or did they not opt for it so that they could enter a college without having officially been enrolled in a college? How does that work?

It's so interesting how things vary so much by region. I live in South Jersey in a prestigious school district and no one I know takes college courses while in high school, I think because the high school offers at least 15 AP classes in the school itself, including AP Music Theory, AP Art History, etc. Honors students can and do take 8 classes each year, and no lunch, and even if they were to take all the AP courses possible, they would never be able to take all offered.

So though I've heard of dual enrollment, there's nothing here already set up to do so. I know some schools have such partnerships because when I look up U of Penn, for example, they have one set up for exceptional high school students (not ours though).

I think what I'm going to do is contact each college individually and see what they can offer? Any thoughts? Thanks again.

'rentof2

Generally speaking, any college classes you take before you've graduated from high school (or "graduated" from homeschool) will not change the fact that you apply to college as a first-time freshman. In other words, you are not a transfer student. Now, whether the college to which you're applying will then accept any of those previously earned college credits for transfer depends on the policies of that college.

My son applied as a first-year freshman to Amherst. Their policy is to not accept transfer credits (this is different, of course, for bona fide transfer students who are entering as upper classmen), but they will occasionally allow a student to move on to higher level classes earlier depending on previous coursework, test scores, placement tests, etc.

So essentially, all my son's early college classes were part of his college prep/high school/homeschool program... and that is all they were as far as Amherst was concerned. We knew that going in, and did not expect to transfer credits or anything like that.

One of his best friends (also homeschooled) went to Northwestern (but now is at Middlebury) and it was treated similarly. Another good friend goes to Carleton, and while he was admitted as a frist-year freshman, they did accept some of his early college classes for credit. So policies will vary by school, but in no case that I have heard of will it create a situation where you are applying as anything but a first-year student.

If you want you could check with the "early college" where your son might take calculus and make sure he's taking it under some special program such as early entry or dual enrollment where he is not a normal, fully admitted student. (If he's not going through the normal admissions procedures to enter that college as an incoming freshman, and is instead taking just one or a few classes as any community member might, then he's not going to be considered an admitted student.)

The high school here does not offer a ton of AP classes, but the ones that are offered are available to homeschoolers to take on a space-available basis. My son took one in when was 15 but didn't much care for the Giant Test Prep nature of the class. He jumped over the college for his higher level classes after that and found it much more interesting.

hoveringmom

Thank you so much. I'm going to contact colleges. Maybe they have alternative choices for those with low income. We live just outside Philly so are blessed with many choices in colleges.

Yes, rentof2, you said it in a nutshell: The "Giant Test Prep" nature of the class. That's what wrong with *good* high school classes. Bad ones are even worse-filled with random, ultimately irrelevant means to test the student so he/she can get a grade. For instance, the honors or AP English classes in my S's school has a mandatory vocab test they give every two weeks. It's from a book that has the words in alphabetical order. So every two weeks they learn 15 words all beginning with the same letter, plus ALL their synonyms and antonyms, and by ROTE. They are tested if they know the words by ROTE rather than in context. It's just idiotic in my view. My older daughter got an 800 in SAT English on her first try, but gets B- on the vocab even though she studies for hours, because her mind doesn't work by rote. So her English grade is low A, if that, just because of this vocab. It's idiotic things like that that drive me crazy. My D just had a 'group project' in her AP Us History II class--supposed to be a high level class, but this assignment was a 'group' POwer point on Latin American immigration--and they got a D-!! I have no idea why (and I'm a teacher). And for what? What was the purpose?

My D is now swiftly entering crisis mode now that I've sort of opened the floodgates with my S. She's a junior and badly wants to be homeschooled. SHe HATES school--not socially, just the drudgery and ultimate mindlessness of so much of it. She has a very high IQ (160) and I think that probably feeds into it.

Do you think it would be ok to let her homeschool for these next two years? How would that look? Help!! First my s, now my d! I'm going to call the colleges this Monday but would appreciate your thoughts. ACK!

danas

My last post was pretty grumpy. I apologize for it.
Regarding home schooling for the last year or two and college admissions, I think that if a student uses some of the time to pursue activities that could not be done with a school schedule, admissions people would tend to look favorably upon it. I also think that elite college admissions folks are used to seeing applicants who have exhausted what their high school offers and are looking for something more.
I find it hard to imagine how a smart kid could be happy in high school, but of course, come application time, home schoolers should accentuate the positive benefits of the home schooling choice.
None of my kids have been interested in graduate school tutors any more than more standard classes. However, the neighborhood family that started using PhD students has had elite college admissions success. Their oldest two are now at the University of Chicago and Princeton.