Sally_Rubenstone

The New York Times college-knowledge blog, “The Choice” has just launched a spin-off column aimed at Indian students abroad, acknowledging the spiraling stampede of applicants from that nation to U.S. colleges and universities. (See related CC thread: India - College Confidential ) This new blog, “India Ink,” (catchy name, eh?) will include crossover pieces from “The Choice,” but often tweaked for an Indian audience.

Today’s inaugural post features an interview with the University of Pennsylvania’s Dean of Admission Eric Furda and his colleague Patrick Bredehoft (who oversees Indian admission for Penn). See 10 Questions for the Dean of Admissions of the University of Pennsylvania - NYTimes.com. I thought that their answers were, for the most part, more candid and helpful than many of the party-line Q&A’s we see from other elite-college honchos. However, I don’t think that the Penn officials sufficiently emphasized the level of competition that Indian applicants will face at Penn, especially those who require financial assistance.

In my College Confidential “Ask the Dean” inbox, I frequently find queries from Indian teenagers who are aiming for the Ivies but who clearly have no clue about how high the bar is set. I wish that Dean Furda had done more to provide a reality-check for prospective Penn students with so-so grades and SAT’s. Although there are many U.S. institutions vying for Indian applicants these days, the number of qualified candidates for each place at a "top" school is still mind-boggling. So unless a student’s grades and test results are at the high end of the Penn pool or unless the student comes from a truly atypical background (being from India alone certainly doesn’t count as “atypical” although being extremely rich or extremely poor can) or offers some unique talent (preferably athletic), then that student should be encouraged to consider other college options while there is still time to do so.

Keep an eye on News, Culture and Views From India - India Ink - NYTimes.com for future college-related features.

Tizil7

From a student's perspective, I can think of a few reasons:

1. The weakening of the Rupee against the Dollar. The current exchange rate is 1 USD = 52.7 INR. This massive increase in just 2 year's time will/has dissuaded many Indian students from applying to colleges in the US. Plus, it is no secret that asking for financial aid at institutions - {need blind} significantly reduces admissions chances. This might also have the side effect of not-so-spectacular full pay students being accepted at top universities.

2. Most, not all, of the private higher education system in India is a money making sham. It's basically, a market. However, with the emergence of good public higher education institutions (new IITs, anyone?) and the extremely cheap eduction - IIT students, on an average, have to pay only $6,063 for the whole four years - provide incentive to students to pursue their higher education in India.

3. The entire nature of the US application process, that is, the holistic nature is lacking in the Indian High School system. Extracurriculars of any form, be it athletics, social service, art, etc are not highly encouraged. Students may sometimes indulge in such activities for a small period of time but any long term engagement is dissuaded unless one of two things happen: One, the student manages to maintain a respectably good academic transcript (>80%/85%) or the students produces exemplary results in that extracurricular activity.

3a. This so called 'obsession' with marks is justifiable in my opinion. Colleges in India, unlike those in the US, look at only one thing, that is, the twelfth grade board mark sheet. For Indian students coming from the poorer sections of society, education is a sure shot way to a better lifestyle. Now if you consider that, you can imagine why extracurriculars are given low weightage by parents and also, in many cases, by students.

4. Looking at all the points outlined above, it can be argued that the current system is ineffective and we ought to move towards a more 'liberal' and holistic education system and ensure better infrastructure for higher education. But the truth is, this system has been in place for quite some time and it is producing results. From what I understand, there will be a shift, but not instantaneously. It will take time.

Tizil7

Another thing I was going to point out. (1) can be addressed by elaborating on point 3. in the previous post. This mentality of academics being the only indicator of measuring a student's 'success' (which I think is justifiable, but more on that another time) extends to teachers who quantify the student's success based on his/her exam scores and sometimes class discussion. Thus teachers do not give sufficient importance to a student's intangible qualities.

(2) can be attributed to the general difference in essay writing styles taught in the two countries. From experience, essays in India are usually much more closer to 'listing' things out. For a more tangible comparison, you can compare the writing style to that of a personal statement for the UCAS. The 'feeling'/'raw passion' part is lost. Now, before others mark me as pretentious, please note that I am not making any broad generalizations. I am just talking from my own experience.

Another thread on CC some time back talked of how Chinese students fake their recommendations and pay professionals to write their essays. This is not far from what happens in India. I don't know how or why this has stemmed up, but it is sad. The only reason I can think brings us back to the holistic aspect. The mentality is that no one has time for such things. Teachers don't have time to write quality recommendations. Students don't have time to write essays which truly reveal the student's personality. Trust me, it takes time ... a lot of time to introspect and come up with a flawless essay. Days, sometimes weeks. I took 1 month to come up with my final essay.

There is one word which sums up the entire problem here: Jugaad. The closest english translation I can come up with is, "It means to get the job done, regardless of the path taken to complete that job."

This explains the fake recommendations

Tizil7

Here is the article I was referring to in the previous post: Asians cheat like mad on US college apps | GlobalPost

tryingforcollege

" I frequently find queries from Indian teenagers who are aiming for the Ivies but who clearly have no clue about how high the bar is set. "

I agree - while a lot of international students are aware, I do find a perception that american education system is below average than what they have in their own countries and if we are at the top 10-20% in our school in our country (say India), we should be like HYPMS material.

Yes, while kids can graduate out of high school in America taking only algebra II, it doesnt represent the kids who ARE aiming for the top schools. Those kids have worked as hard as anybody taken the most challenging classes AND made a difference in the community AND/OR played sports, excelled in music/arts. So folks need to be aware that when you are in the big college contention, you are going to be competing with those kids. And like someone here said 'the kids here who are good are really really good'

Tizil7

^ Finally, another opinion

I agree, my American peers do their best to excel in their own high school environment. This:

is equally difficult to do well in.

fall2016parent

@Tizil - based on this years EA thread, most who got in were at 2300+ with almost perfect subject scores. I think OP is saying there are quite a few who will post a thread - can i get into hypm with a much less score/ranking and I am not sure where that perception comes from. As you got to be really "hooked" or connected without the super scores.

TheNextBuffett

The education system in India is not at all holistic.

anvesh95

Yeah. Your whole life is based on one set of exams.

askhay

education system in india is too old