screwitlah

if you're so concerned about the pragmatic benefits of your degree and its value to employers, then obviously you should not take any humanities or liberal arts degrees unless you plan to go on to grad school for your masters. but how much more useful or how much less "worthless" would a mass comm degree be then? it's just as general. in terms of practicality to Singaporean employers, mass comm and NUS fass and a basic degree from an unknown LAC are about equal. anything other than a professional degree like medicine law or engineering or architecture etc etc is a general degree. its just the difference in prestige between various universities at this point.

only 8 schools in the US are currently need-blind to international students: Harvard Yale Princeton Dartmouth MIT Williams Middlebury and Amherst. The first 4 are Ivies; the last 3 are top LACs. All are pretty damn hard to get in, even though they're need-blind. Need-aware schools are even harder than the need-blind schools if you're asking for substantial aid.

verse

urrm...mass comm's definitely more specialised. its focused on the media industry.

anyway its not that i'm condeming LACs...i'd love to hear more. i have no clue about US education as i've mentioned plus my questions in the first post...

screwitlah

i'm not sure, but you might want to check out how much of an advantage mass comm really gives compared to other general degrees when entering the media industry.

verse

yeah i've thought of that hence the thought of switching to fass/overseas.

anyways i really don't want to go into the whole usefulness of mass comm debate.

i'm here to learn more about US education from a singporean pov...

can i go anywhere with AAC? extra curriculars are maybe slightly above average but no national representation or stuff like that...

screwitlah

to be honest, it'll be pretty hard with AAC for the need-blind US colleges. but if money is no object, AAC could get you into some very good Australian or UK universities

verse

thanks.

hmmm aussieland is out. i'd rather go to fass.

yup i thought the uk would be a better option for me. but my mum keeps telling me not to rule out america totally cos of the exchange rate -_- sing dollar's stronger against the us dollar vis a vis the pound.

financially, can afford lah, but will blow a huge chunk of the parents' savings...

would it make a difference if i applied to US colleges without requesting for fin aid?

serf-

people in that grade range have made it to michigan

strong ECs not required

YOU

aid or no aid makes a HUGE difference at non neeed blind colleges.. i think you can make it to pomona even.. one sporean got into pomona with A Levels less spectacular than yours IF (big IF) I'm not mistaken

screwitlah

verse, if you have the time and the money, just go ahead and apply. put your best into it. you never know what you'll get

verse

hmmm i see.

haha well any reccomendations on colleges i can look at? LACs welcome too.

serf mentioned michigan. shall go look at the website...

screwitlah

verse: What else can I do with a Mass Comm degree? - BrightSparks Forum

D.T.

verse,

YOU is right. I am that anamolous student who got in with only 1 A. My counterpart who also got in and is attending with me - the other Singaporean - has 4 As. Sometimes I wonder how I actually got in. Maybe they were looking for more diversity. Maybe they liked the essays I wrote. Maybe my SAT, SAT2, and AP scores (took privately) helped to mitigate the damage my A levels wrought. Regardless, verse, you definitely have a chance. But do a lot of research. I suggest going to USEIC (United States Education Information Center) and looking for Karen - the main US counselor over there. She's extremely knowledgeable and has helped many many Singaporeans get into the ivys and other reputable places. Look at Princeton Review, Fisk Guide, or other guidebooks. Attend information sessions. Go to the college websites.

Do you have any idea of what you are thinking of studying?

An initial list of LACs to look at would be:

Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore
Wesleyan
Pomona
Carleton
Grinnell
Dartmouth - It's an ivy but it's like an LAC
Vassar
Claremont McKenna
Harvey Mudd (You like engineering and physics?)
Reed

Here's my few cents worth of the viability of the LAC:

There is a reason why the Education Ministry is looking into liberal arts education. Unbeknownst to many Singaporeans, the presidents of the Claremont Colleges (5 liberal arts colleges, which includes Pomona) recently visited Singapore and talked to several senior officials in the Education Ministry on assisting Singapore in setting up a liberal arts college.

About LACs:
LACs offer a bachelor of Arts/Science degrees. All they do not offer are Masters/Doctorates.

'Liberal Arts' do not mean the following:

1. We study art, in a haphazard and pseudo-creative fashion, with dreams of future celebrity status in New York.

2. We study a bit of everything but actually don't know anything. "Too general lah", "not solid", "not specific/not useful".

Liberal arts colleges have distribution requirements (and so do National Universities). In my school, Pomona College, we have to take 1 class in 5 areas - for example, a chemistry/geology class to satisfy a science requirement, a calculus/logic class to satisfy the math requirement, a theatre/music class to satisfy fine arts, and econ/politics to satisfy a social science requirement, and so on. Everyone has freedom to choose whatever classes they please - they are by no means limited by the categories. One of my friends has taken a computer science class, a politics class, a chemistry class, a math class, and an english class, and since we don't have to declare a major until after our second year, he still has time to register for a macroecon class or a french class.

Having said that, we do specialize in the end. LACs allow students to double major, and many in my school do. Many of the seniors have done stuff like double majoring in physics and english, or math and history, or econ and french. So we go as in depth as ANY place in terms of a bachelors degree. Think of a major as being equivalent to a degree. It's equally rigorous. To call us a place of general or shallow learning, its students mere dilettantes, and its institution a joke is to reflect misinformation.

Some reactions include this:

"Huh? Why so weird one, want to study this, study that, aiya just do business or engineering, safer! Can find job. What for do history, or what environmental thing, or english. All useless!"

Unfortunately, I was already well acquainted with this sentiment in my JC years, when someone asked me if I was taking any S-Papers. I replied that I was taking one, and it was English. Her reaction: "Huh, why so weird one?" (Note: Regardless of who you are, such a lack of such social graces is not going to get you far.)

A few things come to my mind:

There are a lot of business majors. If you want to work for the major corporations, just being a business major is hardly going to give you any leg up. You'll need to prove that you have good internships under your belt e.g. DeutschBank, Credit Suisse, GIC etc, as well as excel in your studies, and become active in your school - president of a business society etc, plus recs from your professors, glowing ones at that too.

At a investment banking division of a major bank I was very lucky to work at ( no disclosure), I observed the following "demographic"

1. 4 University of Melbourne grads
2. 2 University of NSW grads
3. 1 U Sydney grad
4. 1 Harvard grad
5. 1 U Penn grad
6. 1 Columbia University (Fu School) grad
7. 1 NTU grad

In the entire investment banking division, there was one rep from a local U. Please don't construe this as a statement against local Unis. I am rather trying to point out the reality of getting into an investment banking or high profile firm with a business degree. Same goes for even grads from schools like NUS Law/Medicine. The VP of that division basically said as a matter of fact that many local U grads simply did not have the exposure required to be able to adapt to the rigors and demands of investment banking. Note, I was not in the information technology dept - maybe the recruitment stats are different over there.

If you are from a local U, and you're ****ed, that's what he said. If you're driven and do other things beside getting As, good for you! You'll go far. Sadly, that is hardly the mindset of many of our peers. You may have seen my remarks in the NUS thread on what I said about the FASS. They need to improve - the faculty, the student body, if they want to provide an education that is going to prepare them for success in the workplace.

The good LACs have pretty good recruitment. Many go into consulting/i-banking, while others into law/government firms. Many go into grad school, but others find themselves doing work in NGOs or education work.

Check out the job placement stats of graduates from LACs. What's their average salary? What kind of internships are students getting? How's their career development office? All these are excellent sources of information.

As for questions on cost, recently Amherst college announced that their school is becoming need blind to international students. We're pushing for Pomona College to do the same. Other places like Oberlin College are also looking for talented Singaporeans, and will give very generous financial aid.

I wanted an LAC because I wanted a place where I got to interact with my professors on a daily basis. I wanted to be challenged by talented peers. I wanted competition within myself to succeed, and not play the zero sum game I played in the A levels and the game that I see too often in local Unis. I wanted a broad, yet deep education, that would prepare me to work in almost any industry in an increasingly globalized world. Of course, I wanted a place where I could have fun too. Frisbee in the lawn? Reading law by the pool? Attending a talk by Bono? Listening to John Mayer live? Choose a good LAC, and you will not lose out in education. Chances are MORE than likely that if you challenge yourself and grow, you'll not only land up with plenty of grad school and job offers, but also with close friends (both students and professors) - 4 years you will never, ever forget.

Not relevant to Singapore? Singapore's changing. Government scholars (e.g. A Star) in my batch went to Carleton College and Bryn Mawr because even the ministry knows the undergrad focus in the top LACs give excellent training in the sciences - theory, research and projects.

Dear Singaporeans, if you're still unconvinced and insist on throwing the proverbial egg at the walls of the LAC, go ahead. I'm not interested in a "you are wrong, I am right" argument. This is, after all just an internet forum. I have nothing to prove. If you want more information though, I will be more than happy to assist.

YOU

D.T.,I didn't mean to say that you're mediocre.. all I wanted to tell Verse is that he's got a chance.. you must have done something right (essays, ECs) to get in.. the US admissions process is holistic.. and if you can be an intern at an IB, you must be something..

DT, when did you do your internship? Did you do it in the US/Singapore?.. How did you get it?..

PS I'm not from Spore

screwitlah

^^ D.T., BEST post ever by a Singaporean (or anyone else) on LACs.

D.T.

YOU,

lol no I didn't think you were insinuating that. I was just validating what you said earlier.

Yup, verse definitely has a chance. See, what I find a lot of Singaporeans doing is this:

They sit around in a school canteen/home and start discussing US college.

"Er, so my teacher thinks I should apply to some US unis, what do you think?"

So, the parents, well-meaning and all, basically list: HYPSM. -.-'' Classmates say about the same thing, although a few may add in Amherst or Williams (because Goh Chok Tong did his Masters there)

Considering the fact that Harvard has already eliminated all transfer applications due to the sheer number of freshman applications and that the acceptance rate is 7.1 percent, and with all the aforementioned schools having similar miniscule acceptance rates, that may not be the best course of action to take.

I did my internship in Singapore, and I got in through a 'older' friend I knew while working to organize a government event. Apparently he volunteers to work with grassroots organizations during his free time, and we got to work together on this project. I got to know him pretty well, so after army, I asked him (somewhat presumptuously) if there was a chance I could actually intern at his bank, and he said yes. Not the most conventional way to get an internship, but we worked well together and I didn't think there was any harm in asking.

I did this internship last year from Jan - Mar.

screwitlah,

I try =) There's a lot more in those College Search and Selection Forums though.