screwitlah

I don't think there's a need for me to provide more sources or citations than anyone else in this discussion. I say it is highly unlikely in my personal opinion against everyone else's personal opinions. But I never said it was impossible - in fact, I've provided an example to the contrary!

when it comes to the top US colleges, that's not a plus; that's a requirement

Nadash

I just felt that your post was worded too harshly--if its a opinion, one should mention it in the post. Don't throw a wet blanket on the poor guy. ^^

screwitlah

i'll play the bad cop but if it helps, it never ever hurts to try. speaking from experience!!

Nadash

And I'm the guy with the heart of gold. *shower of stars* =D

galoisien

Rubbish.

Firstly, let us define "top" -- if we're going by USNWR rankings, top 20, 30, 50? Or perhaps in terms of getting quality education that will be well-regarded by employers, or somewhere where the individual will be "stretched" and experience maximum intellectual growth.

In any case, you seem to be speaking too much from your experience and not to generalised cases as a whole. Colleges are looking for individuals and great students. The coursework doesn't matter -- as long as it's challenging. In fact, the liberal arts colleges will care less and the tech schools will care more about seeing that you have highly-specialised science courses on there. Course concentrations mainly matter in terms of credit and so forth.

Remember, colleges don't discriminate admissions on major either (unless you're applying to special programmes) so if your poly coursework is challenging, then why not?

Any international student getting into Stanford is once in a blue moon, my friend. It probably wouldn't have mattered whether he was in JC or in a polytechnic.

Rubbish.

SATs test language aptitude and grammar -- there's nothing advanced about language in the SATs. All that matters is that you must be a good writer and a good communicator -- that you can think and argue well. If you're going into journalism or media studies for example, that will come conveniently.

There are so many cultural biases reflected in that post and it seems that *you* inherently appreciate the IT fields more; but in actuality but what matters is a show of passion and diligence. I would even go so far to say (if students don't neglect to be well-rounded in their non-academic life) that highly-specialised coursework is a plus.

screwitlah

you are wrong on so many levels, but i will let you think what you want for the moment since i'm going to work. your post is equally full of rubbish, opinions, generalizations and biases

anyway, just a few quick remarks:

what do most people in Singapore think when they say "top"? poly peeps included. you decide.

the coursework matters. why don't you take a poly diploma and see if you could get into UVA again? do you EVEN know what a poly diploma is about? you're way too naive.

please tone down your arrogance - "nothing advanced" about language in SAT? it's challenging for many of us Singaporeans. it's especially so when there's no language requirement in the 3-year poly syllabus for most poly students. language ability comes with constant practice - something not required in the poly coursework of many diplomas. i have seen many poly diploma transcripts before. chances are you haven't.

and duh, i said -most- diplomas. there are diplomas which specialise in communications / business and law etc. but they are in the minority.

galoisien

Huh? You need coursework to complete the SAT? All you need is a prep book.

I don't know. Are we talking about prestige whoring here, or are we talking about actual excellent education?

It so happens that the most well-qualified poly students I know are taking such programmes.

Again, is it so much as the poly diploma that kills you, or the aptitude of the individual?

For example, does it really kill your chances to attend Harvard if you go to an inner city high school in the US where the graduation rate is 27%? In fact, it would probably help your admissions, but the obstacles you must conquer to even get to admissions ("life in da hood" or whatever) are the biggest reason well why Ivy League students who come from inner city high schools are "once in a blue moon".

So really, let's control for individual qualifications here.

Practice that can be easily acquired in secondary school.

What you see in poly coursework is not that dissimilar from the coursework of "magnet science high schools" or "magnet business-oriented high schools" and so forth.

fiona_

Actually, poly is much more application-based and project-work compared to the highly exmination-focused nature of JC education.

This post doesn't contribute anything constructive XD

galoisien

Yes, coursework-centred education (as opposed to examination-centred) is generally a plus (which is why the IBP was championed over the A-levels).

screwitlah

it is unlikely for the typical poly student to get high SAT scores BECAUSE he or she doesn't get much practice or grounding in language in school.

you still don't get it? obviously prestige whoring. we've always been talking about top schools here. many schools, including non-top schools, offer excellent education. do not equate them.

none of us has an acceptable sample size. but such students would obviously get the most practice in language - many more essays and writing assignments than a diploma student in electronics.

i got an A1 for my higher chinese in sec 4. i was exempted from taking chinese at a levels. i have not attended a single chinese class and have not attempted a single assignment for chinese language class in 3 years. i still read chinese daily, but i'm super out of practice in terms of vocabulary and essay writing. do you think i could still get an A1 right now?

when the syllabi of most 3-year poly diplomas don't even have a language requirement, what would 3 years of lack of practice do to your SATs? there'll be some people who are diligent enough to keep their language skills sharp even though it's not required of them, but that's because there are exceptions to every norm. the school shapes the candidate that'll take the SATs and apply for admission. that's part of why i said it's highly unlikely.

i've been to chance threads around here. those high schools have language requirements. in poly, unless your diploma or specialisation calls for good language skills, there is no language requirement -at all-.

even if some of the specialised high schools don't have language requirements, there's a difference in mindsets and objectives that would motivate the students differently. high school students in such schools actually plan to enter college, and they know colleges want to see a grounding in the humanities and language too. what most poly students have in mind is to enter the workforce after graduation and get jobs that are related to their diploma specialisations. most of such jobs don't require good language skills. that mindset wouldn't motivate most of them to maintain their language skills or suitability as a candidate for college admission. the resulting academic atmosphere doesn't help either. one of many snippets of conventional wisdom around here says that many poly students chose poly because they hated or dreaded GP in JC. it's an unfortunate fact, but none of the many poly friends - with diplomas in EEE, computing, etc - i have in NS could possibly write a winning college admissions essay without external help.

even for poly students who WANT to eventually graduate from university, most of them aim for related faculties and courses in NUS/NTU. admission requires only a good GPA for their diplomas - no essays or writing requirements. anyone aiming for top US colleges and a liberal arts education there is heavily outnumbered. only the most determined few can resist the overwhelming atmosphere and peer pressure to practice good language skills. try stepping into any of the 5 polytechnics here and speaking good RJC-student English. you'll feel like an outcast faster than you could say "Would you care for a spot of tea?" (exaggeration)

i don't know why you think your comparison is in any way valid, or that you know better even though you live in a self-containted cocoon of academic assumptions that you regularly dish out in your posts. you don't know the ground. cultural bias in my posts? no, I think it's just actually knowing what I'm talking about.

screwitlah

the IB diploma is an exercise in the liberal arts. it -cannot- compare to a poly diploma. they're completely and utterly different in terms of both content and purpose.

lisieux

I think screwitlah is just trying to be realistic. It's not impossible, but the chances of a poly student vs JC student, admittedly, is significantly lower.

Pennaspirant

But are there any specific examples other than the 20+ year old Stanford guy???

loathed

actually, i dont get the point of comparing a JC student to a poly student, both have their own pros and cons. both can still get into american universities and graduate, be it transfer, freshman application or whatever.

on another note, if say i am a poly drop-out, will community colleges accept just my O levels? how many ideally should i apply to? how about if i graduate from poly? any difference?

cheers.

lisieux

Actually, the question was TOP american universities, so there's the difference.