fiona_

Eh Galoisien, why do you group income, house size and primary school together? Going to "good" school doesn't mean the person's rich -.- Have you heard of meritocracy / fairness? Like, balloting or GEP? I just find it incongruous.

Nadash

I went to a Newtown primary then to ACS (P). Guess why; not telling.

galoisien

Because we all know how well that worked out in ancient China, don't we?

The Singapore government I think is the only government that uses the term non-ironically.

Well no, I just wanted to find other Singaporeans who weren't factory-made students, who don't happen to be part of 'la machine'.

I realise this. I went to ACSI for two years (before I went back to the US).

Marvelous institution -- if you also realise what an amazingly sheltered environment the school was. But you can tell a lot of people are there only because their families are obscenely rich, and they liked to throw their weight around. School was fine if you learnt to stay away from them. Same type of people who disliked anyone who was intellectually curious enough to ask questions outside the syllabus, and were hostile to anyone to anyone who didn't 'act their race'. ('Cos any non-Caucasian Singaporean who speaks with an AmE accent is obviously doing it on purpose to annoy people, and are intentionally being race-traitor bananas, amirite??? God forbid dialect immersion!)

One of my closest friends there (that I've kept over the years) was in the former GEP -- also happens that he is of a low-income background. But his type tends to be the exception, I think. The funny thing is though, that many of the GEP are amazingly hostile to anyone outside their group. Non-GEP are beneath them! And then you question them and you realise some aren't even that intellectually curious.

But no, my intention was to look for "non-machine" students, who have transcended the path laid out for them by the dictates of society; who marches to the beat of "a different drummer," as Thoreau would say.

Nadash

Ahh...ACS(I). Live in boarding, that's the solution. Scholars kick ass. Rather a lot of idiots in school though; I found JC much more enjoyable.

fiona_

What I meant by meritocracy is that your attendance at a good school isn't contingent on income. Anyway India, South Korea, and China also have university entrance exams so how can you say Singapore is the only one?

While I wouldn't completely disagree with your second point, you characterise people from rich environment as manufactured - slightly insulting? If you can describe Singaporeans as such, the elite prep school students from Choate or SPS could as well. I do agree it's not the most ideal case, but it's prevalent almost everywhere - rich kids go to good schools, do ECs, blabla, get into the best schools. The Singapore system on the whole isn't all too bad - for example, scholarships are common so most independent school students don't need to pay restrictively high fees.

Hm I can't really characterise GEP on a whole but I do acknowledge that elitism is a problem. Perhaps my experience is slightly different from yours because I studied at Nanyang not ACSi. ACSi is acknowledged as the rich kid school while NYGH's profile is more Chinese?

Personally I don't really qualify for your ideal of 'march to the beat to a different drummer', no one really fits exactly in the mould or totally incompatible. I speak English at home, live in landed, but my family income is <10k and I speak Hokkien. Do I count as someone you'd like to meet?

galoisien

Don't get me wrong. I am immensely dissatisfied with the educational establishment in Korea and even the US too. The Korean obsession with the Ivy League is disturbing.

Despite the flood of top echelon Asian students to overseas schools, innovation and breakthrough are slow in coming.

The problem I suppose, is that after being pounded all the way through primary and secondary school on how meritocratic the Singaporean system is, you realise, meritocracy is a sham. Perhaps the sting is in disillusionment.

Admission isn't contingent on income, but there is a high correlation...

Ehhh .... at ACSI you got your 12-dollar / month tuition only if you were GEP / MEP.

My 10k / month remark btw, was more of a rhetorical point. Even at 5k to 7k you're hovering around the 75th percentile.

The "good school" characterisation is also problematic. The formative years of primary school are the most important ones -- but they're also the ones that are the cheapest to influence. Is there anything "bad" about a neighbourhood school? I went to Fairfield Primary, which is a government-aided institution but hovers somewhere around the middle. The atmosphere and climate there (and at its successor FMSS) is much warmer than at ACSI, and surprise, most of my good Singaporean friends that I've kept contact with hail from my primary school than my secondary school.

Many rich parents it seems, can't stand the thought of their child attending any other school (at the primary level) but the "top". But with all that high tuition, how much does it matter? And why are so many unwilling to say, use those resources they are willing to pay to *create* excellence (e.g. through parent-funded coalitions and programmes), rather than be enslaved by the establishment's conception of it?

Anyway, you are someone I would like to meet

Don't worry, I am not against high-income per se (I am a libertarian), or condo/bungalow-dwellers, etc. It's just that the wants frequently correlated with individuals with such traits are often mindless, but the don't have to be (which is what I'm getting at.)

fiona_

Oh well, I thought alot of people got EESIS/ESIP. The cut-off for Nanyang is about 261 and the cut-off for EESIS was 262 so I know quite alot of Nanyang people do get it.

tiobehpio

hmmm, i was from fairfield primary as well, '88 batch, who might u be galoisien?

galoisien

Fairfield Primary 2002. 5B/6F! (Register #41, if you really want to know. )

I had Ms. Ho for principal before P6 and Mrs. Tan Shook Fund during P6. Sadly, Mrs. Tan died December 2003 while vacationing in Thailand. And she had such vision too, even those two years!

I lived in the HDB estate just across. Block #35. I think it's demolished now.

tiobehpio

dorothy ho was my principal too. haha. i see, so u are 2 yrs younger than me. really miss those primary school plastic soccer balls days. i was 3g 4g 5f 6b.miss gaw & mrs kong. twin terrors.

Valour

hey guys~
im really worried about ECs in application for us universities and ive been thinking for weeks whether to post this..

how is it like non-ivy league universities? so far my ECs are just:

National Cadet Corps - Outstanding Cadet Award
Student Council
Organizing Committee for Pre-U

im in the arts stream.. wad can i do for arts-related ECs?

ive also recently applied for young pap and united nations association of singapore but havent received any reply since then! so assuming i do not have these 2 ECs, what else can i do? well the thing is that i cant join more than 1 cca in my school. I know that I should be looking at out-of-school ECs, but im having a hard time finding for arts/humanities-related ECs. Its easier to find stuff like external sports club or sth. Thanks alot guys! I hope to be able to join u guys in US!

also what unis should i be looking at assuming that im not a maths olympiad, national chess champion etc...

ps: Im losing sleep over this!

frankchn

Geog/Hist/Lit Society, Eng/Chinese Debates, etc... Lots for you to join wad. Why can't you join more than one CCA at school anyway? Could you apply for an exemption?

What are your statistics/preferences anyway?

Valour

well i really cant , i tried and my friend almost got sacked from SC for this CCA-matter..

yup im trying to find external hist/lit society etc.. any clubs u know? anyway wow u are at stanford! i admire u!

im also thinking of volunteering at a museum or something..

thx for ur help

fiona_

Young PAP? You might try emailing your MP to ask if you can follow him around on Meet the People sessions. It's very enriching.

Quite alot of my friends have volunteered at ACM but I don't know if they have any programs.

You are doing the UNAS UN thing?

Valour

okay thx! ACM refers to the Asian Civilization Museum right?

the unyas im referring to is some voluntary organization for youths.. well it seems like no reply so far so im trying to look at other things