b@r!um

I keep being told by everyone, including my principal, college profs and some labor bureau representatives, not to study in the US as an undergraduate because the quality of education is about the same as in high school here (so I would just "lose" a few year's worth of education); I would never find employment here because employers do not know the American school system; I would have extreme difficulties being accepted to a grad school here (note: no sinlge college prof ever said this); I would waste $40.000/year and if I don't have that money I do not even need to apply.

What's the public perception of US undergrad institutions in your country?

frankchn

The perception of US universities (HYPMS + a few others and well Oxbridge in the UK) are very positive, partly due to the media coverage of top scholars on government scholarships all going to US universities instead of local ones.

We have no perception of the average schools because a lot of Singaporeans have never heard of them and would not go there anyway as we have 2 decent universities in Singapore.

abless

Hey barium,
I assume you're talking of Germany in your case. Well, being from Germany myself, I can both confirm and contradict your experiences. First of all, my math teacher told me that it would probably better to do undergraduate in Germany and then go to the states. She argued that the admission officers are aware of the very good quality of education in Germany, etc.
However, a degree from HYPMS will still be impressive - much, much more impressive than a degree from Heidelberg or whatsoever. So, in my opinion, you'll need to consider the following:

You will very probably have to spend a lot of money for the education. If you decide to do so, you'll get a top-notch one. Of course, if you decide to stay in Germany, you'll get taught more or less the same material. True. However, the top institutions are so prestigious and excellent because of the student body - that's what makes a university really great.
In your case, I'd apply to Oxbridge, get an excellent education (with prestige ) and then maybe go to grad school in US (if you like). The advantage: it costs much less.

B407

MOre presitigous, harder to get into, and VERY EXPENSIVE. Those who apply often labelled prestige whores.

b@r!um

Thanks for your replies, but let's talk about schools below the ivy league. Schools like Amherst or Carnegie Mellon with no international name recognition.

frankchn

Well Carneige Mellon seems to have a pretty good rep in Singapore for its strong Computer Science division. Well, as to the other schools, Singaporeans think that one would be better off studying in Singapore, where it is cheaper and you receive quite a good education.

abless

Most (if not almost all) people will never have heard of Carnegie Mellon and the likes. Certainly not of Amherst. (I am talking of Germany).

PS: Yes, Carnegie Mellon has a _great_ computer science program.

fuzzylogic

yeah, the National University of Singapore is supposed to be really good.

NoFX

Students here don't think of people applying to US colleges as wealthy well-off students - but adults certainly do.

Students usually think - why on earth would you leave when you've got a perfectly good life here?
Most people here don't like leaving their comfort zone. If you plan on going overseas like the UK or the US, people are like, wow that's so far away..! whilst in their heads, they go, 'you weirdo!'

I keep getting the sense that they look down upon it. They certainly dont seem envious, nor supportive - more like polite condescending cautiousness. It probably seems bizarre to them that I am determined to study and live somewhere far far far away by myself.
Once, my friend said jokingly, "aren't we good enough for you?" But I have a sense that that was not a joke...
But I guess in a way, it does seem like I'm leaving the country because I feel that the educational system here is unjustified (which I do believe it is) and that I feel like I'm superior than the others (which I do NOT believe I am).. when I told the small handful of people, they probably thought that too.
Sorry if that doesnt make sense - I really dont know how to explain it.

Adults however think so differently... they think that only the very bright, well-off students can go overseas.

And CMU does have a great compsci program!! One of the best in the nation.

fuzzylogic

NoFX, which country are you talking about?

Wega007

Singapore!
a perspective by some Singaporeans
Carnegie Mellon, might either fall in Tier 1 or Tier 3 as Singaporeans never hear of it!
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showt...1524475&page=4
-------
To majority of Singaporeans:
Tier 1 UK = Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL (this deserves to be there, but not really known by most Singaporeans)
Tier 1 US = Harvard/Yale/Princeton (comparatively less renowned for postgrad because it concentrates on undergrads)/MIT/Stanford/Wharton in UPenn (thanks to SMU only) /rest of the Ivy League (but they don't know which universities are Ivy League ones)
Tier 2 = NUS/NTU/SMU
Tier 3 = everything they've never heard before

The same goes for postgrad as it is to undergrad in Singapore; people don't know any other university.

In the US, I would say that the top 25 universities in USNews are very well regarded (though obviously there is still an ivy bias) and in the UK, top 15-20.

Rister_Chutophs

The US educational system isn't as appreciated as our own here in Switzerland.
This may be true for the rank and file, but certainly isn't true for the top students.


Thus it's always like:

Me: "I'm going to apply for some US elite colleges, but they're incredibly selective, I probably won't come in."
Stranger: "Ah c'mon, American high schools are never on the same level as our grammar schools are, sure you'll come in!"

-_-


Anyway it's hard to understand for my compatriots that there is something like selection for colleges: Here in Switzerland it's clear, either you have the Federal maturity (20-30% of the population), then you are able to enroll wherever you like (all Universities/ETHs) or you don't have the maturity then you won't be able to study anywhere.

Harvard and Yale are by far the most famous ones. Berkeley, Columbia and Stanford are also well-known. Of course the more sophisticated people know also about the other good institutions like Wellesley, Princeton, Georgetown, etc. My physics teacher is in love with MIT though.

MKDaMan1818

Expensive as hell

NBZ

<Rister_Chutophs> What is the Federal maturity?

Rister_Chutophs

yeah.
But as I said only about 20%-30% of the population receive the maturity (called Matur or Matura).

It's different for each canton (state), but simplified our school system is like that:

Everyone attends for 6 years a primary school. (Most of them are public.)
After the primary school the best students go to a longterm Gymnasium
(strong entrance examinations).
The rest goes to Secondary school (also divided into Sec A/Sec B/Sec C with Sec A for the strongest students), which lasts 3 years.

The longterm Gymnasium lasts 6 years. Thus, when you were able to meet the requirements (semester grade average) and survived those 6 years, you are permitted to take the Matura exams. If you pass (the GPA doesn't play a role at all!), hurray, you have the Federal maturity and are able to study any major at any university or ETH (besides the medical studies, which have apitude tests).
It's a bit like the German Abitur, with the exception that there are "Numerus clausus" restrictions in Germany.
(Which is the reason, why a lot of German students surge into Switzerland..)