ken285

There's a negative to EVERY profession, so stop being discouraged with your chosen fields. Even investment banking has its down sides. There is no such thing as a perfect job.

Atana

No doubt there are negatives in every field. But the negative aspects shouldn't be running rampant before the student even enters the field.
Recent article in the Chronicle had these gems; 59.2% of those in medical school are considered to be from wealthy backgrounds, from 1987-2005 the poorest 1/5 of the population made up about 5.5% of the overall population of medical students, and in 2007 the average debt for a medical degree was 140,000$.
So if these trends continue, the only people able to attend medical school will be those of such elite status, that they effectively would not need the advanced degrees. Anyone else, will be so in the minority that tickets will be sold to see the poor exotic creature. And society will lose people who'd be good doctors, because of the excessive and frightening costs of that education. Or those who do get through will only serve in communities wherein they can make the inflated wage necessary to compensate for the inflated costs of education.
Society, and students certainly do not benefit from these type of developments.

rocketman08

I did not realize that there were issues developing in the legal profession (until reading that article), but I've known and heard a lot about the degradation of the medical profession. There is a lot more flexibility with what one can do with a law degree than a medical degree besides just being a 'lawyer'. If you get an MD then you're basically qualfied to practice medcine but that's about it... yes you're likely a smart person and could apply yourself elsewhere but the MD training would then be about a quarter million worth of schooling and living expense money down the drain.

It dosen't show any signs of getting better anytime soon. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from going to medical school; however, I think that anyone whose considering it must take a serious look at the profession, what it entails and what one gets out of it before making a final decision. It's not the glitz and glamour profession that it used to be portrayed as... and to a certain extent it's not even a respected profession (although much of the blame here falls on the HMOs and Insurance Companies).



P.S. A previous poster said 'medicine PhDs and Juris PhDs' and then referenced them to the legal and medical professions. Neither of these degrees (the MD or JD) are PhDs (primiarly because they do not require extensive original research and generation of new knowlege, just the learning of previous knowledge). One can do a PhD in a law (e.g. international law) or medical (e.g. cancer research) subject, but the MD or JD isn't a PhD (I'm not saying they're better or worse, just that it's not a PhD)

Although these are called 'professional doctorates' they are not doctorates in the purest sense (most countries issue Bachlors or Masters level degrees for the US equilivent of MD or JD training). In fact, historically physicians are not even entitled to use the title of Dr. (as this was reserved for those that had completed advanced research in a subject). However, the profession had a bit of an inferiority complex a few centuries ago in the UK and started calling themselves Dr. to gain a higher social status... in the same way that American lawyers often attach Esq. after thier name... an equally bogus and historically inaccurate hijacking of a title that they weren't entitled to ;-). This was all pointed out to an MD once when they suggested to a PhD friend of mine that a PhD isn't a 'real doctor.' Needless to say the MD looked a bit dumb afterwards as it's the opposit that's true (and the PhD couldn't help suggesting that such a comment from the MD indicated that perhaps there were still concerns about securing social status).

bearpooh

"But I would have hoped that an admissions board would be happy to hear that an applicant had considered a number of high-paying careers, but was choosing medicine out of a desire for personal contact, for a sense of having helped people."

They hear so many people talk insincerely about wanting to help people, that they assume that virtually everyone is lying about it. So I took my parents advice, and did not talk about that.One of the more cynical interviewers asked me whether I wanted to help " suffering humanity". I smiled at that and said that my motivations were more intellectual. He then proceeded to say that if I had claimed to want to help the suffering, he would then have proceeded to disbelieve everything I subsequently said.

I would imagine that saying that money is a primary motivator would probably upset the interviewers too.

I vaguely remember talking to my admissions panel about how I liked reading Kafka for his multiple layers of meaning and how medicine, with its layered complexity appealed to me because it had the same attraction for me as Kafka did. And it was all true and is still true to some extent, years after I entered med school.

"(Admissions panels get bored? Want to be entertained? Don't want to admit someone unlike themselves?)"

All of the above.
Medical admissions panels are human and consist of busy doctors dragged away from their clinics once a year to decide what the shape of the new incoming class should be.

Infinite_Truth

I personally seek to aid the masses of humanity - but in a different way. Pursuing Law, making tons of money, gaining public office through whatever means possible, and then when one's finally at the pinnacle - if any soul is left - then thats where the greater good takes over.

dtex50

Many of the comments in this thread have revealed some of the gripes that physicians have about their CHOSEN profession. Yes, I also chose medicine. Others have commented that most careers have problems. Although I have only had three careers to date, that is probably also true for most professions. It has occurred to me that these warnings presented to hopeful premeds may be based on a false assumption. That is, maybe their ideas, expectations, and desires are very different than those of the previous generation. Good luck in whatever you strive for.


To Rocketman: Agree about MD's striving to secure social status. I really have to supress a smile when a physician, frequently at an informal social event at my child's school, introduces themself to me as "Dr." Smith or Jones. There is also a major university in my city and Ph.D.'s abound. At similar social events, I have been asked "I hear you're a doctor. Are you a real doctor or a professor-type?" I just tell'em to pick which ever one they want to talk to, as I have both. (The Ph.D. is the real deal, not one of the 6-year M.D.-Ph.D. tickets. It was a lot more work, but much more gratifying, than the doctor mill.)

Adios

Narcissa

lol next on the list of what asian parents will be pushing their kids to do
1. engineering 2. medicine 3. ...what now?

futurenyustudent

I personally aim to aid the masses through being successful. I plan to get my BA at NYU, get my JD at Columbia or NYU or Penn, then BigLaw Associate, then BigLaw Counsel, and then I'll have the financial security and resources to put in a good number of pro-bono hours. YOU can't help the less fortunate if YOU YOURSELF is less fortunate. You have to be very much MUCH MORE fortunate than the average person to help the less fortunate. I have to eat, too, you know. I'm along Infinite_Truth's line of thinking. YOU YOURSELF have to be successful before you help anyone else. So thus, I'll work on not being a burden on the system first, and then think about the less fortunate, but you should NEVER expect any of us to take food from our tables and feed the poor if you're living hand to mouth.

And yes, if you make $100k in New York City, you ARE the less fortunate. Considering the cost of living index in NYC is like 250 on an average of 100, you have to make 2.5x the national median income to maintain the same lifestyle.

Which comes out to be $44,000*2.5=$110,000, adjusted for inflation. You make any less, and you ARE the less fortunate. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you live in the NYC Metro area, you are NOT middle class unless your take-home reaches $10k a month if you're out in the suburbs, $25k a month if you live in the city.

A JD and MD ARE doctorates. Professional or not, they are. The doctorate status of a JD is more disputed, but it's called a Juris DOCTOR. If it wasn't a Doctorate degree, it would be called Juris Masters.

Americanski

I don't think anyone would argue that merely graduating from law school makes someone a good lawyer. I don't understand why you think the supply of "quality" lawyers is declining or what you think is causing salaries to rise. The top schools are producing slightly more graduates and selecting them from a larger applicant pool than they were a decade ago. Law firms are hiring students from largely the same schools they always have. I don't see how they're getting more "polished" lawyers.

futurenyustudent

It's like this: Most, if not all, biglaw firms work their associates to death. Most, if not all, will do roughly the same kind of work for the first few years. Most biglaw associates will not make partner. Therefore, law students will naturally choose firms that will pay them more money. Thus, to get the smartest law students who will eventually become good lawyers, firms will have to pay associates more. Hence the salary wars.

apumic

In response to all the people mentioning their kids' desires to not be an MD after their parents were.... I was one of those -- my dad's a physician working 80+ hrs/wk and my mom is an RN. After growing up without a dad much of the time because he constantly had to save another life, I adamantly refused to consider medicine...well, now that I am in my senior year of college, I am seriously considering psychiatry, after looking at clinical psych and seeing how much more emphasis the field seems to put on research over actual patient care. ...Interesting how sometimes you end up exactly where you thought you'd never be!

norcalguy

I think it has become somewhat chic to bash medicine. In fact, the easiest question to answer at a med school interview is "what's wrong with the US healthcare system." That said, doctors are still well-respected (although they don't have the autonomy and trust that they had 40 years ago). They are still well-paid (although salaries have been declining slightly for the past decade when you account for inflation). And people still need doctors. More so as obesity rates continue to climb. I don't think medicine is as good a career as it was 40 years ago. However, it is still the cream of the crop as far as professions go. Medical school graduates are choosing to go into high-paying, lower hours residencies (neurology, cardiology, derm, radiology, anesthesiology, emergency med, etc.) and letting the foreign medical graduates take over the more demanding and less desirable primary care and general surgery residencies.

Medical students are not dumb. In fact, due to the competitiveness of the admissions process, they are probably smarter than law, business, or grad students. As issues of malpractice, work hours, compensation, etc. become bigger, they are changing their residency choices to adapt. Like I said above, that means choosing cardiology instead of CT surgery (there were actually more CT fellowships than applicants over the past few years) or neurology instead of neurosurgery. Traditional, "prestige" specialties are falling by the wayside.

RejectingCrimson

My fiancee and I are both physicians now; we finished our residencies just last year. It is certainly true that every profession has its downside, and a career in medicine is no exception. For those of you who have the desire to be physicians for monetary, societal or even "helping-to-relieve-pain" gratifications, I strongly advise, if not urge, you to find alternative career options. Let's leave it at that. It is in my most sincere hope that you do. Then again, it's up to you.

Shrinkrap

Hey! Don't leave it at that! Most of the comments have been from wanna bees and dinosaurs. what say you?

asdfghjkl12345

**** My Life. That Is All.

P.S. screw i-banking. it's glorified as the ideal job these days...but it's not (20+ hour work days for a standard 5 digit salary is what I-bankers make...the reason you see averages like $600,000+ at Goldman Sachs is cause IT'S AN AVERAGE OF ALL EMPLOYEES)