RML

herrsque

Most Berkeley grads that go into IB were from Haas and Econ. Those people are just as smart as, if not smarter than, those people at Pomona/CMC. Berkeley/Haas is a solid name in IB/MC/Finance industry in general. Pomona/CMC is not even that regarded.

kmzizzle

very strong arguments... rofl. i like how if you don't know, it doesn't exist
lol who said those were the only people that got banking gigs? if anything they are the minority at berk

since CMC is so selective and prestigious, how the **** did you get in? lol

RML

This is very funny. This guy thinks that CMC is HYPS or something of such caliber when the truth is it's even far from being one.

Berkeley is so much better than CMC for IB placement. Only 2 or 3 people from CMC get hired in IB. In contrast, almost everyone at Haas or Berkeley Econ is hired a few days after graduation, and many are hired even before graduation and pay them quite handsomely. On the other hand, CMC and Pomona grads don’t earn as much as Berkeley grads do, as a whole. Check out payscale.com

CMC is good despite its "unknown" name. But it's not as good as Berkeley Econ, and more so, Berkeley-Haas. To say CMC is just as good as Berkeley Econ is unfair for Berkeley. To say CMC is just as good as Berkeley-Haas is a big joke.

RML

BTW, my friends who work for McKinsey (a very prestigious management consulting group/firm) asked me what is CMC? They're serious. They all believe that CMC is non-existent in the business/finance/IB/MC world.

THEAjay89

Well, we had Bain and BCG on campus in the past month as well as many other consulting firms so take from that what you will.

I don't know how you can qualify Berkeley econ being significantly better than CMC econ considering that CMC is known to have just about the best econ program among LACs. And unfair to Berkeley? Give me a break and get a life. Yeah, it's great for graduate school but for undergrad? Still good but not as elite as its graduate program. In terms of the business school, yes there is no comparison because CMC doesn't have a business school. We do however, have such courses as derivatives as well as other advanced finance courses offered in our econ department.

And do YOU consider UCB to be on the level of HPYS? If you do, then you're delusional.

And the whole 2-3 people thing? HIGHLY doubtful...

CMC and Pomona each had a 15.7% acceptance rate this past Fall and are both considered to be elite LACs so don't play it off like they suck in comparison to Berkeley. To say that CMC and Pomona are not highly regarded is laughable.

Sure, UCB may have the better name recognition (25x the size of CMC + top graduate programs) but don't rip the education that CMC/Pomona provides. Those who know highly regard both schools and I can say with certainty that I'm getting a great education here.

RML

THEA, nobody here is saying CMC isn't a good school. I think people who have heard of CMC would say that it's a good school, despite its “unknown” name. But to say it is superior to Berkeley is pure nonsense. There are only very, very few schools on earth that's superior to Berkeley as an academic institution and CMC isn't one of those OBVIOUSLY.

Your friend/school-mate here is bashing Berkeley and demoted it to some so-so State U, just because it is a government-funded institution. He contrasted Berkeley with CMC (a private institution) and concluded that because CMC is private-run, it is on par with HYPS. Isn't that laughable at best!

CMC is a good school. But it is nowhere in the level of HYPS. Berkeley isn't on HYPS level yet (for undergrad) but, at least, when ranked by departments, Berkeley can head-to-head with one of the HYPSM in most academic areas.

Berkeley has a business school – named Haas in case you're ignorant about it – that housed and trained students whose motivation is to join in IB, management consultancy, finance or business in general. It is therefore not wise to compare CMC to the whole of Berkeley as Berkeley is huge and CMC is tiny (and less prestigious). If you want to make this right, compare CMC with Berkeley Econ and Berkeley-Haas. In which case, Berkeley would thrash CMC to the ground as Berkeley-Haas is a super elite brand name – a solid top 5 business school for undergrad and ranked #2 by US News & World Report as the BEST Business School in America. It is now on par wtih MIT-Sloan, and CMC is nowhere the reputation of Sloan whether by the ordinary people or the top employers. There is no contest here – Berkeley is head-and-shoulders superior to CMC for IB/Finance placement and as an academic institution as a whole.




I never said you can't get a good education at CMC. Of course, you can. You can even get a good education at schools that were ranked outside of the top 200 BY USNews. But if you are concerned about getting into finance/banking/IB/MC placement, getting a good education isn't enough as top employers don't even recruit at schools that aren't well-regarded. Haas is well-regarded. It's not just well regarded; it's very well-regarded - top 2 business school for undergraduate education. CMC isn't that as regarded, to be frank with you about it.

RML

To answer the OP's question, Yes, Berkeley (Econ and Haas) is a target school. Firms visit the campus to recruit top talents.

CMC is not. Most people at CMC have to make a lot of effort to get hired by a top IB/MC firm.

momo123

http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/csc/...-2008-2009.doc

Pretty sure the top BBs and MCs recruit at CMC.

THEAjay89

Yeah RML, isn't "as regarded"? According to who? Are you ACTUALLY citing USNews as the source of your argument? Yes, there are undergrad business school rankings but for essentially every other department except engineering, such rankings refer to graduate education and without a doubt, Berkeley DOES have elite graduate programs.

It's a joke that you're citing USNews though as it is pretty much accepted that those rankings are essentially a joke (Ohio State at 12 or something, give me a break...)

When you cite that Berkeley is head and shoulders above CMC as a whole, I agree it is, at the GRADUATE level. I highly believe that most people would agree with me that CMC is a superior "academic institution" at the undergraduate level based on the quality of students/quality of education.

You state that it's hard to break into Ibanking/Finance/Consulting out of CMC but this could not be further from the truth. As I stated before, BCG and Bain come to our campus quite regularly as well as a multitude of other firms ( I can dig up the list if you want as I do a lot for the Claremont Consulting Network).

Top undergraduate Business Admin or Bus/Econ programs in california

A similar debate has happened before. Check the 2nd and 3rd pages of the above link as SouthPasadena got the entire list of finance/consulting night presenters etc.

EDIT: THANK YOU momo, was about to get that.

RML

^ The list was for companies that have recruited CMC grads; it did not say it is a school whose graduates are more sought after than those of Haas'.

Those companies in the list you provided also visit a hundred or so colleges. If they do happen to visit CMC that does not mean CMC grads are as much as marketable as those people at Haas. Do some head count for both CMC and Haas in IB/MC and I'm sure Haas would totally smash CMC to the ground. The fact that only a handful of CMC grads get into IB/MC means that they are not as much of a target as Haas, although it also says that the best of CMC (the outliers) are somewhat as competitive as the average Haas grads.

Again, let’s not kid ourselves. CMC is a good school and probably one of the finest schools in California for undergrad education. But it is not anything like Haas and it does not as well-loved and as resounding, respected, adored…as Haas in the finance/banking industry. To say otherwise is totally absurd. CMC < Haas. Stop kidding yourselves!

The only true competitor of Haas in California is Stanford. CMC is nowhere near the prestige of Stanford whether viewed by the ordinary people or the top employers. Haas is as good as Stanford grads in IB/MC placement. Haas grads earn as some of the highest in America. Haas grads also have a very strong alumni network and the participation rate to their alma mater college is often 100%. Such things cannot be said to CMC as CMC isn’t really an elite school. But I would say it is an OKAY school overall. But nothing like Haas.

RML

Best Undergraduate Business Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report


1 University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 4.8
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA 4.6
2 University of California--Berkeley Berkeley, CA 4.6

4 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4.5
5 New York University New York, NY 4.4
6 University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 4.3
6 University of Texas--Austin Austin, TX 4.3
6 University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 4.3
9 Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 4.2
10 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 4.1
10 University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA 4.1


NO; this isn't a joke. Your opinion maybe is. This ranking is way more credible than your opinion.

THEAjay89

If UCB didn't rely on it's PA score for all it's accolades at the undergraduate level, you would be against USNWR too...Let's not get into the whole credibility of the PA score thing but it's pretty much the consensus opinion that a high Peer Assessment score is derived from GRADUATE prestige. Still, at the very least you're putting an awful lot of stock into a ranking done by a magazine.

And no, I highly doubt that Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs visit HUNDREDS of campuses every year.

You mention a head count? Of course that over populated safety school you call UCB would smash CMC in terms of a head count. 280 people graduate from CMC per year and only a fraction of that population is interested in banking/finance. I essentially see the same 30-40 people at all the company presentations and such.

The very best of CMC? Give me a break, I highly doubt the vast majority of kids at Berkeley would even get into CMC. Totally absurd? Doubtful. You are way off base and delusional if you think Haas does as well as Stanford lol. Haha, "adored"...hilarious.

The best of CMC being somewhat competitive with Haas? I checked that payscale.com thing you were telling me about and yeah, CMC grads have a higher average starting salary than UCB grads. Yeah, not as much of a target as Haas...maybe in terms of not being a target for your state budget cuts. (WOOOOOOO! even BIGGER classes!)

Your use of the term "outliers" is hilarious. Again, I guarantee you the vast majority of people from UCB wouldn't get into CMC...Yeah, an "OKAY" school...nice

Perhaps I'll do some more research on your school later. I don't know the actual URL so I'll just hit up stanfordrejects.com.

indylove

This thread is so ridiculous I had to make an account to respond. Herrsque you pretty much ignored all of rhythm's points and continued to reiterate your belief that students at CMC are better than students at Cal simply because of their school. I'd love for you to respond to these points, rather than glaze over all of the opposition's valid arguments:

1) Haas places much better into investment banking than CMC does. Like he/she mentioned, there was not a single CMC student in rhythm's training class at his BB, nor did any of his friends who worked for top BB's and elite boutiques mention coming across any CMC students during the summer. There were, however, plenty of Haas students who secured internships with the top investment banks. You would think that there would at at least ONE student from CMC in rhythm's class if it really is as much of a "target" as you claim. You would also think some of his friends would have come across more CMC students if it truly is that much more heavily recruited out of than Haas. However, this simply is not the case. Haas places far better onto Wall Street than CMC - period.

2) Your main argument about why Berkeley places better than CMC is because Berkeley is much bigger. However, pretty much everyone who goes into banking from Berkeley is from Haas. Haas admits around 350 students a year and is only a 2 year program, so the ENTIRE student body is only about 700. The majority of Haas students also are not interested in banking (plenty of management consulting, accounting, marketing, industry jobs, etc.) so you're looking at a small fraction of that. CMC, on the other hand, admits around 650-700 students PER YEAR and its a 4 year program. Haas is MUCH SMALLER than CMC but places significantly better on Wall Street. Again, this is a fact.

3) I won't say exactly which bank I work for, but I will say it is a BB that likes to think of itself as the world's premier investment bank, as do many of our competitors. I just looked at the list of people in my training class, and there was not a single person from CMC. There were, however, quite a few people from Berkeley. I've met them and can vouch that they are extremely intelligent, ambitious, and highly qualified individuals who can cut it at CMC or any other school. There were also no students in my training class from your school herrsque, which brings me to my next point:

4) You are a sophomore economics major at Wesleyan University. You have not gone through the summer analyst or full-time recruiting cycles, let alone worked for an investment bank. You are therefore not nearly as qualified as someone like rhythm who has actually worked at a BB that you would wet your pants to work for. I am going to remember you when I come across your resume, especially because not a lot of people apply here from your university. We hate hiring people who are not team players, and you are clearly not someone that we would want to work with. Other people who work in investment banking may remember you as well when they come across a resume with that particular background. Even if one of us don't read your resume and you somehow get an interview spot, this industry is very small. Word travels quickly. I'd imagine the army of Haas alumni on Wall Street will not be pleased, nor will any of your interviewers, if they happen to get a casual email from a coworker with snippets of what you've said here, and who you are...

6) The main argument here is whether Berkeley is more of a target school than CMC. The aforementioned points are sufficient to prove that Berkeley is definitely a target school, while CMC is not.

7) My BB has not been recruiting out of CMC, but has been recruiting out of Haas. This is the same situation with many other BB's and top boutiques that my friends work at.

8) There is a list of companies that recruit out of CMC that looks pretty impressive, but many of the investment banks that go there are recruiting for NON-investment banking divisions (e.g. operations or wealth management).

RML and THEAjay89: Please keep things civil. I personally feel that CMC is a fantastic school, and Ajay I'm sure you can get into investment banking if that's what you really want to do. My main point here is that Haas is much more heavily recruited by the investment banks than CMC is. Let's not bash on each other and display the level of arrogance that herrsque has.

THEAjay89

Thank you for your perspective and clarification indylove. You bring up solid points and seem to be qualified to make such claims. I do indeed respect Berkeley but truly feel that my school is a little better than RML portrayed it as being. I suppose one really can't claim that LACs in general are targets for BB (maybe with the exception of Amherst and Williams, and maybe Pomona/CMC for west coast only) but I feel I am getting a great education that rivals any other top school (I realize this may not translate into ibanking prospects). Thanks for your support indylove and hopefully your post will bring some sanity to this thread lol.

indylove

herrsque, you there? Would love to hear a response to each of my points, or are you going down without a fight?