tokenadult

The Bad News Law Schools - NYTimes.com

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toblin

There is nothing "new" about this "news". But maybe it will be worthwhile if makes some of the self-deluded become slightly more aware.

Dogod11

So the rankings are responsible for the decline of law schools in America... what else is new?

ThereseR

I think it's very fortunate that the law schools aren't being straightforward.

ThereseR

* unfortunate, sorry

meaculpa

Good article, but I think this related article is better: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/bu...-abas-way.html

charlieschm

There was a 30 percent increase in the number of graduates of ABA-approved law schools in 20 years! That stat is from 1990 to 2010. In addition, there are plenty of non-ABA law schools. Think very very carefully before you spend the time and the money.

Also, be very wary of law schools that offer large amounts of merit aid, but require that you maintain a high GPA. With the curve, they know in advance that many of those students will never be able to maintain that high a GPA, and will not keep receiving the aid.

XaviFM

@meaculpa: good article. The AACSB hasn't caused the cost of an MBA to be unreasonably high, they've only ensured that those MBAs which are earned are worth earning.

Tankeryanker

Like University of the Pacific's McGeorge School of Law.

sovereigndebt

The problems in our society are structural and systemic. They are not cyclical and seasonal. Its the perfect storm of financial shenanigans brought on by wallstreet greed and tomfoolery, coupled with greed in the mortgage banking/originator world and filtering down to overly ambitious developers and builders. That was compounded by the dot.com craze in the 90's, which blew up, and everyone headed to real estate for a safe haven but it wasnt so safe in the end. Then as we built out the internet and wireless empires, we learned that computers were eliminating as many jobs or more than they were creating, and globalization meant many ordinary jobs went overseas to developing countries. Its a highly competitive world and we are also inter-dependent. A very big bubble indeed.

That affects law firms because clients shrink or disappear, clients move overseas, and as margins shrink clients can't afford huge legal bills to fight over money or shelf space at Walmart anymore. The entire construct has changed.

Meanwhile the NEED for lawyers grows..but in the lowly (as in payscale) areas of family law, personal bankruptcy, and largely "district court" level stuff that makes it hard for debt burdened lawyers pay their rent. Further, large law firms are not hiring an entire cadre of newly licensed attorneys....they are being very picky and selecting a very few....making a lot of lawyers finishing below the top 30% of their classes scramble for jobs..and often having to hang out a shingle. Not good. They can't even make a living on real estate transactions because nobody is buying houses and they can't get loans for them anyway.

My advice to most lawyers is to think twice....and be honest. If you are in the muddled middle of your class or below, get out and find something else to do, unless you have family paying your way through school.

And by the way, the stock market is overvalued now and we may see yet another crash in the next 12-18 months just as severe as the last one. Oh joy.

Reality bites sometimes. Be prudent.

floridadad55

I am a lawyer.

There is a vast over-supply of lawyers out there.

And has been for 30 years now.

Further, there are many problems with the profession.

Such as standard 60 hour work weeks, and few jobs after you hit about 32 years old.

Unless you can get into a top 10 law school, I would go a different route.

To me, a lot of kids wind up going to law school because they are liberal arts majors, and don't know what else to do.

I would recommend that for most people, spending THREE YEARS in this endeavor, and spending all that money for tuition, not to mention foregoing the money you could have been earning on a job, is not a wise course of action.

taxguy

Although I agree with Floridadad's post ( post number 11), I would temper it with the following: I would only go to law school if you have a clear vision and reason as to what you want from your law school education. Thus, wanting to be a lawyer wouldn't be a good enough reason unless you attend a top 10 law school. However, there are many occupations where having a law degree might be very useful such as financial planning, accounting, with a tax specialty, enforcement jobs such as FBI, etc.
Bottom line: Unless you have a clear vision and reason for law school, I would recommend staying away from it. The worst thing any person can do is to go to law school because they majored in some liberal arts and aren't sure what else to do with their life. That would clearly not be a good reason!

drusba

Here is a new and more enlightening article entitled "The Pedigree Problem" that appears in the July issue of the ABA journal: The Pedigree Problem: Are Law School Ties Choking the Profession? - Magazine - ABA Journal One of the issues it discusses is the fact that there is an overall bias in the industry of those who hire lawyers to seek out those from pedigree, high ranked law schools, even when hiring attorneys with years of experience. In other words go to a lower ranked law school and you will be at a disadvantage forever in the hiring market regardless of competency.