jonri

Some posting questions here are high school students. It's good to explore your options and I'm don't want to discourage you from posting. Nevertheless, I am reminded of a conversation years ago with a neighbor who was a foreigner applying to American graduate schools. She had an interview scheduled and consulted me regarding what she saw as a burning issue. Her question: "Should I start the interview by saying 'Hello, I'm Jane Doe. I'm glad to meet you' or with 'Hello, I'm glad to meet you. I'm Jane Doe'?"

I said it didn't matter. She didn't believe me. She called every American she knew and asked...wasting valuable time she should have used to prepare for the substance of the interview.

I suspect that in Jane Doe's culture, the wording of an initial greeting in a first meeting is extremely important. Americans would probably pay more attention to the handshake.

High school students know that if they want to get into HYPS, they've got to take lots and lots of APs (if available). To get into a "good" college, high school students will endure three years of lab science or foreign language. The ONLY reason they take it is to have a "shot" at a top college.

Please believe me when I tell you..law school just isn't like that.There aren't any prerequisites. Asking whether you should major in political science and minor in history or major in history and minor in political science or whether double majoring in both will help get into a top law school is a lot like the question Jane Doe asked.

80% of law school admission is about gpa and LSAT. The lower down the totem pole you move, the more these two factors tend to matter. A 4.0+ combined with a 180 on the LSAT will, barring a felony conviction or a personal statement which reveals that you feel an irresistible urge to murder members of an opposing political party, get you into almost any law school..with the possible exceptions of Yale, Stanford, and Northwestern (for different reasons).

More importantly...sound the trumpets please!!!--at some point, you have to stop PREPARING for life and GASP!!! live it. So, don't waste four wonderful college years doing things you don't like to get into a top law school.

There is NOT some magic "to be done" list which will guarantee you admission to YHS--HONEST. I do disagree with Ariesathena and concerneddad who say high school students shouldn't even dream about YHS. I know a lot of students at YHS and some of them starting dreaming about YHS when they were in high school--or before. So, dream; it's a very good thing to do..but don't waste your college years doing things that don't interest you to look good for law school.

tired_student

You are truly a wise man.

IlliniJBravoEcho

My college counselor told me I was thinking too far in advance and I'm a college freshman! But seriously I think that if you have dreams and goals that's good but don't set your heart on them. That is where the problem lies. Keep your options open and be ready for anything even a complete change of career.

ariesathena

Wise post... until the end.

I think you don't get what I mean when I tell high schoolers to not get wrapped up in HLS. There is a HUGE difference between dreaming (hey, 550 kids go there every year - why not you?) and fixating ("How do I get into HLS??? I really really wanna go! No where else will do!"). I discourage the latter, which I tend to see a lot on these boards. IM(not humble)O, most high schoolers don't have the life experience and perspective to understand that they can have fantastic legal careers even without HYS Law.

All in all though, great post.

jonri

Well, Aries, perhaps I didn't "get" your posts. If I didn't, I suspect others didn't either.

Lets look at what you said in one post:

"Also - I'll say it a million times - as a high school student, forget HLS and Yale. Seriously. The chances of getting in are absolutely miniscule. I know someone who chose between Columbia, NYU, Penn, Chicago, etc - and flat-out rejected at HLS, and didn't even bother applying to Yale. Think multiple majors, excellent schools, great grades, and Fulbright or Rhodes scholarship for your typical HLS/Yale L.S. admit."

Here's reality:

While most YLS/HLS students went to "excellent schools," some went to not-especially-elite undergrad schools. To confirm this, see:

http://www.yale.edu/bulletin/html/law/students.html and

http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php

There are 32 Rhodes Scholars a year, and not all of them go to law school. I don't know the number of Fulbrights, but (a) except for the UK Fulbrights, it's possible for a good, but not outstanding student to get one-- certainly, you do not have to be Phi Beta Kappa to do so-- and (b) lots of Fulbrights do not want to go to law school.

There are about 560 or so HLS 1Ls and 189 Yale 1Ls. Even these schools don't have 100% yields, so at least 1,000 people get admitted. The "typical" student accepted is neither a Rhodes or Fulbright Scholar. Oh, there are Rhodes and Fulbright scholars in the class, but most assuredly, the MAJORITY of students at both law schools were neither.

Hey, I'm not saying that it's easy to get in; it isn't. However, I don't see any reason to tell high school students to "forget it." There are at least 1,000 people a year who get into one of these schools...so why not one of our high school posters?

I am trying to say to high school kids to dream big--but be yourself. Get the best grades you can, the highest LSAT you can, but DO WHAT YOU ENJOY, not what you think will look good on a resume.

ariesathena

Jonri - perhaps you could have provided a complete picture. What did the poster say? Undoubtably, something about being 16 and just HAVING to go to HLS. Forget Harvard, forget Yale - live your life. Check out the post by Wellesleygirl - that is EXACTLY why I counsel people to not get fixated on the top law schools.

Fully agree with the last part of your post... for many reasons. I firmly believe that many people don't appreciate college until after it is gone. I also believe that students will always do better in things which interest them. Finally, as we all know, I'm a classic example of someone who changed careers.

tired_student

If everyone didnt believe they could get into YHS then why would anyone strive for the 4.0 or the 180.

ariesathena

Amendment:

It was a 17-year-old poster. (Rolls eyes.) Complete text of his post: "Harvard/Yale Law GPA/LSATs
Let's say I go to University of Illinois (my state school) for undergrad, and I want to get into Harvard or Yale Law. Can anyone tell me roughly what GPA and LSAT scores I would need to have a shot at admission?"

Why not, while you're at it, include the rest of my post, which might put my comment in perspective? C'mon Jonri - sure you're used to presenting less than the full truth during your day job, but why not a little unbiased information and discussion in CC-land?

kb54010

You know...I agree with the original poster....but I LIVED my high school years...and got rejected from HYP for undergrad...ain't gonna happen for law.

In the end..I do wish I'd planned and worked harder in high school so I could have more choices. I did get into Dartmouth, WashU and some others..but the Yale rejection still stung just a bit.

I'll be happy at Umich next year...but I will be workin my butt off...I REFUSE to be rejected by Yale twice.