Pre Law (Criminal Justice)

bigboywasim · 08-04-2008, 09:26 PM

I have a cousin who wants to become a lawyer. He is planning to get a B.S. degree in criminal justice with a double concentration in forensics/ investigations and in criminal law. My university CSUS is ranked 3rd for the criminal justice program in the United States.

I want your thoughts on this major or is it better for law students to do something else?

Spetsnaz Op · 08-04-2008, 09:32 PM

the best thing a prospective law student can do is get a high GPA and when the time comes score as high as possible on the LSAT....then get into law school and graduate in the top 10% (especially if you don't go to a T14)

actually some might even say that law schools would prefer people that did not take pre law programs

at the end of the day they will be looking at your GPA and your LSAT score....and to be perfectly honest not much else will matter aside from school and maybe major if you're an engineer

jonri · 08-05-2008, 10:58 AM

The answer depends in part on the "level" of law school you are interested in. Generally speaking, CJ is one of the WORST possible majors for anyone interested in the top 50 or so law schools .

Maverick5575 · 08-05-2008, 03:49 PM

I agree with jonri. I have a degree in criminal justice and without law school its pointless. In addition to being one of the worst possible majors for law school, a criminal justice degree is extremely limited in terms of finding a job. You pretty much only have law enforcement jobs to fall back on. IF thats something you dont want, then you might reconsider a major.

bigboywasim · 08-05-2008, 04:42 PM

Can you guys further explain why CJ is bad for law school. Medical students usually end up doing biology. I do not understand. Why is engineering good for law students?

diesel · 08-05-2008, 05:03 PM

CJ is a easy major, engineering is a hard major.

bluedevilmike · 08-05-2008, 05:03 PM

About two-thirds of medical students do biology, sure, but that's not the analog for criminal justice. The analog for criminal justice would be something like Medical Technology or Premedicine, which are very bad medical student majors. "Health science" majors like nursing, physical therapy, medical technology, kinesiology, exercise biology -- those are all bad.

The analog to Biology is Political science. And that's a very good major for pre-law students.

(Difficulty is not the main issue.)

Maverick5575 · 08-05-2008, 05:16 PM

then what is the main issue?

jonri · 08-05-2008, 05:28 PM

There's a book that's been mentioned quite often on this site by Montauk & Klein called How To Get Into Top Law Schools. In it, there are quotations from law school deans on various subjects. When asked what college majors then do NOT like LS applicants to have, CJ is one of the most commonly mentioned majors. I know someone --Sally, Sib?-- posted quoting the language I'm talking about. You might search for the post or the book.

Redsoxfan583 · 08-05-2008, 06:31 PM

What about a criminal justice and a political science double major? CJ is the field that interests me the most which is why I want to major in it, and after undergrad I want to go to law school and be a prosecutor. Will being a CJ major seriously impede that path (specifically for T14 law schools)? Will doubling the CJ major with a political science major look any better to law schools, or is it still not advisable to major in CJ at all?

jonri · 08-05-2008, 06:55 PM

Don't major in CJ if you are aiming at T14 LSs.

sybbie719 · 08-05-2008, 09:21 PM

Piggybacking on Jonri's post...

I would suggest purchasing 2 books:

Anna Ivey - THe Ivey guide to law school admissions
Richard Montauk- How to get in a top law school

The Montauk book the book is approximately 500 pages and gives a very comprehensive overview of the college process and discusses applications, essays, LSATs, majors, etc. (the newest version was just released today).

Chapter 8 of his book discusses Making the Most of Your Credentials, Montauk states:

Quote:

Your specific major matters less than the type of major you choose. What matters is that you choose a serious major. Schools are leery of pre-professional subjects such as business, and those that reward performance talents such as acting. There are some majors that admissions counselors cringe at seeing; communications, criminology and pre-law (even though theoretically pre-law is not a major)
Any subject that requires serious analytical work and dedication attract at least a reasonable % of the best and brightest will meet with approval.

The ideal undergraduate record would thus include all of the following:

Top quality school

Demanding course load (no path of least resistance) advanced work in a second unrelated (to your major) filed is particularly helpful

Top grades throughout (with few courses taken pass/fail) but especially in junior & senior years

Courses requiring substantial reading, strong writing ability good research skills and analytical prowess

Courses developing useful substantial knowledge for your future legal field.

When posed with the question: What factors do you consider when evaluating an undergraduate record admissions officers at various law schools state :

What ever the major, there should be variety including some clearly demanding analytical courses. There is not set preparation for law school, but some majors may be of less value than others (for ex. Pre-law) I examine the undergraduate transcript very closely. I look at what the applicant has done both in and outside of their major- Faye Deal, Stanford

What we are looking for is both breadth and depth. We favor applicants who come to us from broad liberal arts education. They learn about human vision from the arts, how the world works from math and the sciences and the human condition from philosophy and history. We don’t want academic dilettantes however; we want applicants to have taken the most analytically rigorous courses in their field- Jim Mulligan, Columbia

Not all UGPAs are created =. Swat and William and Mary, for instance have refrained from inflating grades; their averages are between 2.8 & 2.9. At the other end of the spectrum, Stanford and Yeshiva have mean GPAs over 3.4- Mulligan, Columbia

The GPA number is just a starting point. Our first concern is how rigorous the course load has been. We look at academic letters of recommendation, which are particularly helpful if they address the difficulty of the course load ex: the grading policies of professors from whom the applicant took multiple courses. Other factors we c examine is whether there were substantial barriers to performance such as the need to work many hours per week- USC

I know what the strongest and weakest programs are at some 50 to 60 schools. At some smaller commonly seen schools (and programs) it can be helpful for the student to provide detailed information. –GWU

We see a # of pre-med students who did poorly as pre-meds but then did well in their next field. The key for them is to make sure they get out of pre-med early so they can fully demonstrate their talents.- UCLA

Maverick5575 · 08-06-2008, 08:13 AM

so lets say you graduated with a degree in cj. Then what? you cant possibly get into law school. Ive been at this for awhile and I can say with certainity that the LSAT score is the main factor that determines admission

sallyawp · 08-06-2008, 10:51 AM

Maverick, you've been at what for a while?

The reality is that top law schools view certain majors with suspicion, criminal justice and other "pre-law" majors among them. That's not to say that having graduated with a degree in criminal justice will prevent you from going to law school. You also need to recognize, though, that for top law schools, I maintain that it is not all about LSAT score (or, for the most part, LSAT score combined with GPA either).

It has always been my experience, too, that law schools that would be considered Tier 2 and below may be more forgiving about having completed a pre-law type major. Again, no major is a complete bar to attending law school, though it is important to have done well, especially if a major seems less challenging.

I can throw out an example that may be helpful. A receptionist at my law firm (BIGLAW in NYC) was working full time during the day and attending John Jay's (Manhattan) criminal justice program at night. After she graduated, she applied to law school and got into New York Law School in downtown Manhattan. She attended full time for one year and then in the evenings thereafter. After graduation, she got a wonderful job with a legal services organization in NYC, and, when I last spoke to her about 6 months ago, was fabulously happy.