GPA concerns for Harvard Law School

Vivi · 11-05-2009, 11:53 PM

My eye is definitely set on Harvard Law School. Not only do I wish to practice here in the Boston area, but I really like the area (I'm an MIT undergrad). I wouldn't mind getting into any of the other T14's, but I'd prefer to stay up here in New England (Yale, NYU, etc. would be lovely!)

Anyways, here's my dilemma. I started out as a Electrical Engineering major, but recently switched into a double major in Economics and Management (and Political Science minor). However, my math-science grades from my first year here weren't all that good. From my calculations, I am expected to graduate with a GPA definitely no higher than a 3.7 - thanks to a C or two - and more realistically would probably be a 3.4 or so.

I am currently trying to put all my effort into owning the LSAT, and from what practice problems I have done, I anticipate a fairly high score. So I guess my question is... with a degree from a top-tier private university and a fairly high LSAT score (170+), is it still realistic to hope for admission into HLS with a 3.4-ish GPA?

bluedevilmike · 11-05-2009, 11:59 PM

Barring some kind of demographic consideration, 3.4 is probably out. 3.8 seems roughly to be HLS's floor. I can see them giving some weight to an MIT education, but not 0.4 worth.

If you can crush the LSAT (175+), NYU and Columbia will both still be in play.

baller4lyfe · 11-06-2009, 01:44 PM

Hey bluedevil any thoughts on how to get such a score other than consistent practice? I believe I saw a post once that you said with a certain strategy it can be done..do you know of any? What are your recommendations? Thanks.

White_Rabbit · 11-06-2009, 02:32 PM

I can't speak for MIT, but Harvard undergraduates routinely get in with 3.5-3.7's and 172+.

bluedevilmike · 11-06-2009, 02:33 PM

If I said that, I was mistaken--to hit 175+, we're talking more natural talent than consistent practice. Practice is the sort of thing that can bring you from a 172 to a 176--but you'd have to be at a pretty high level to begin with.

Studying helps, don't get me wrong. The LSAT is all about doing things right, quickly. Read as much as you can--the Economist is a good place to start--but don't skim; your goal is to break down reading comprehension passages well. What was the purpose of this paragraph? What is the author trying to communicate? A good set exercises in formal logic will help. No need to take a class in it or anything like that; that's massive overkill. But spend some time learning to, say, diagram a contrapositive. And then when the time comes, if you need it, sign up for a prep class.

Those are tips to get your score higher, but even with a very good practice regimen most people won't be able to score 170+, much less 175+. There are some people -- the vast majority of the population distribution, in fact -- who just won't be able to take standardized tests at the speed necessary to hit 175+. And that's not an indictment of their general intelligence, it's just the way these tests are designed.

bluedevilmike · 11-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

I can't speak for MIT, but Harvard undergraduates routinely get in with 3.5-3.7's and 172+.

3.7 I can see, but 3.5 would surprise me without a demographic bonus. Do you have documentation for this?

mardad · 11-07-2009, 01:41 AM

Isn't MIT famous for grade deflation?

bluedevilmike · 11-07-2009, 01:58 AM

It is, but law schools usually don't care all that much.

White_Rabbit · 11-07-2009, 10:46 AM

Yep, the Office of Career services releases a report each year documenting the results of everyone who applied to law school the year before with a Harvard B.A. Last year's report is around my room somewhere, but I will stop by and see if this year's report is out yet.

bluedevilmike · 11-07-2009, 11:03 AM

Hm. That sounds like the 3.5's are going to be outliers, perhaps with demographic advantages. But maybe I'll be wrong.

flowerhead · 11-07-2009, 12:41 PM

MIT apparently gives a boost for law school admissions, but a 3.4 won't cut it unless you're a URM.

flowerhead · 11-07-2009, 12:43 PM

Also, you shouldn't base your desire to attend HLS on your desire to be in Boston. Any oft the T10 will place you just fine there, insofar as you have a substantive connection to the city (and I'd think that being an MIT student would give you that connection).

susan4 · 11-08-2009, 03:15 PM

I read from somewhere that HLS took one student who was a Harvard undergrad with a GPA 3.2 and LSAT 180. I could not remember the source. I don't think that this particular student is URM. I do believe this is a case of an outlier.

Greybeard · 11-08-2009, 06:38 PM

I applied to Harvard Law School with a 3.4 GPA from a top university in a demanding program, and a high LSAT score (probably the equivalent of 176, although they scaled it differently then). This was about 30 years ago, in an era with much less grade inflation. My application to HLS was apparently rejected the day it was completed.

My understanding is that HLS has not become appreciably easier to get into since then.

bluebayou · 11-08-2009, 06:46 PM

fwiw:

Attending MIT is a negative for med school admissions. Surprisingly (at least to me), MIT's 3.7 average gpa for acceptance is higher than the national average...thus, med schools apparently show little love for grade-deflated schools....

http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html