jym626

Subtest scores between 8-12 are all in the Average range.

Hopefully those of you who are reporting IQ scores had more testing done than just an IQ. These diagnoses cannot and should not be made based on IQ scores alone. I would not feel comfortable commenting on diagnoses and recommendations based solely on IQ scores. Thanks for understanding.

momofthreeboys

Thanks, that does help the perspective alittle. I know in my case there is a battery of tests over a couple days every 3 years that are required for his IEP. I just never really understood the WISC IV, to me that is the most confusing because of how it is scored.

Gwen Fairfax

jym, what other tests do you suggest? We saw a much recommended neuropsych and she did the WISC and no more.

momofthreeboys

Gwen, does she have an IEP with her school? I'm guessing different states have different "rules", but my son must go through testing every three years through the school's psychologist office. The school switches up the tests as my son has grown older, but generally there are 3-4 different tests, plus interviews with the teachers, with my son and with my husband and I as part of the evaluation and then there is an annual eval that doesn't include he testing.

jym626

The neuropsych should have tests selected to address the question being asked. It should typcially include measures of memory (verbal and nonverbal) planning, problem-solving, visuospatial skills, verbal/language-based skills, attention, organization and also a measure of mood isues. Academic issues may or may not be part of the evaluation. Parent and teacher rating scales are also part of an evaluation. Testing rules out as well as rules in diagnostic issues. The specific tests vary by referral question, age of patient, etc. An IQ test is part of a neuropsych eval. It alone is not sufficient evaluate and diagnose learning or cognitive problems.

jym626

Within the school system, an updated assessment may not need to be a complete updated evaluation (yes, this does seem to vary by state). A school psychologist can better speak to these rules/regulations

Mitdu

momofthree--

Coding is an interesting test. I don't know if I'd say it correlates closely to reading. More than anything, Coding measures visual-motor skills.

Coding is a timed, paper/pencil test. It's kind of like translating a "code." The person looks at a digit, translates it into a symbol and writes that symbol. If a person has labored handwriting ability, it usually means a lower Coding score. Handwriting, by itself, is not a sign of pure intelligence.

But Coding is not just a handwriting test. A person with weak visual memory, weak working memory, or difficulties with concentration may also have a lower Coding score. And definitely, a person who has slower visual processing skills will likely have a lower Coding score. Those skills are related to intelligence. It takes testing beyond the WISC to determine why a person has a low Processing Speed Index.

I agree on this part: a low Coding score might indicate visual processing problems that could interfere with reading fluency. But IQ tests, by themselves, do not show dyslexia or reading-related Specific Learning Disabilities.

Contrary to stereotypes, most dyslexics have solid visual processing and don't reverse b/d's. In fact, most dyslexics think in pictures, not in words.

fMRIs show that people *without* reading disabilities tend to process language in the left hemisphere, and process nonverbal images in the right hemisphere. However, dyslexics tend to process both verbal and nonverbal information in the right hemisphere--which leads to inefficient language processing.

Rapid Naming tests are often good predictors of reading-based disabilities. (And Rapid Naming scores are closely linked to the hemisphere the person uses to process words. People who process words in the left hemisphere tend to have higher Rapid Naming scores.) The Gray Oral Reading Test also is good for measuring all aspects of reading--from rate to accuracy to fluency to comprehension. KTEA, WIAT and WJ are more common for measuring reading achievement, but not as precise.

momofthreeboys

Yes, my son has taken KTEA, WIAT and WJ along the lines. My son "learned" to read via Dr. Suess Hop on Pop, we figured it was the visual cues of the "shape" of the words that clicked with him. It's fascinating "stuff." He has never reversed letters. He is ambidrextrous. He couldn't do jumping jacks for years. But he is a strong athlete in 3 sports. He is 99th percentile in Math testing and is no longer tested for Math except as part of the KTEA. Interesting on the "Coding" portion of the WISC, it is without a doubt the lowest score for him. Ironically Symbol Search is above average which I was told is visual/motor quickness and is a measure of patience and concentration. His comphrehension is high as is letter-number sequence and comphrehension. Matrix Reasoning is quite low (below average.) Processing speed is low (relative to everything else).I can't remember all the tests that were given to diagnose his dyslexia, I just remember the psychologist telling us he was a "classic" dyslexic with no other issues. He's getting all As in high school, but the heavier reading is starting to take it's toll I fear. For this year the only accomodations that we've written into the IEP is additional time if he needs it. But we may have adjust for next year.

Gwen Fairfax

Thanks everyone-- D is on a 504 (for accommodations) not an IEP. Seems the WISC is the only test necessary for this in MA. She does well in school and in life, (with an occasional black hole, like geometry), so for the moment at least my main worry is the standardized tests. She has extra time and is allowed to record responses in the booklet (test 'bubbles' are impossible for her)-- but geometry, mapping, anything visual are hopeless for her and I know this is really going to hurt the scores. She's in 10th grade and will take the PSAT in a trial run next week-- that should give us a baseline to work from.

Mitdu

GwenF--

Glad she's doing well on a 504. Some schools let the tail wag the dog and only give IEPs to kids who neatly fit into one of the 13 IEP categories. Well, NLD is not an IEP category. (It's not even in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual...yet.) Most schools don't know how to categorize NLD.

To be fair, Dyslexia and ADHD are also not IEP categories. Thankfully, some schools are more interested in providing services than arguing semantics.

Yes, my NLDer couldn't tell time on an analog clock until about 8th grade. She still struggles to read maps and even timelines. Anything on graph paper gives her a headache. She can't draw a stick person. Yet she has a photographic memory and an uncanny memory for faces.

See how your dd does on the PSAT but don't panic. Make sure that she uses any classroom accoms such as extended time or keyboarding. The College Board and ACT are making it much tougher to get those accoms--unless the school provides proof that the student needs those accoms and is using those accoms regularly.

Even with accoms, her college entrance exam scores may not be exceptionally high. If not, colleges that put excessive weight on a student's SAT/ACT scores may not be a good fit for your dd. My dd was able to get a decent merit scholarship to a small LAC. Her scholarship would have been higher if her SAT/ACT had been higher. But that's life. Half-way through her first semester of college, she's happy, thriving (even passing college math!) and blossoming. That's worth it to us!!

momofthree--

If your "classic dyslexic" is getting all As, that's fabulous!! As I told Gwen, make sure that he's using Extended Time in class/for tests if and when he needs it. That's the only way to get that accom on the SAT. (Both of my kids got extended time on both the SAT and ACT, and dd got keyboarding for her essay portions. Both kids said they really needed the extra time.)

momofthreeboys

That's a good tip (utilizing the extended time to build a history). My son has a tremendous work ethic probably from what it took to get himself reading. Fortunately, high school grades reflect work ethic (homework on time, extra credit, etc.) more than anything. Something my older 2 never quite learned as well LOL. The only thing he complains about is how slow he still reads and the fact that it takes him twice as long as his "buddies" to get his homework done. We're very, very fortunate.

Gwen Fairfax

Mitdu, it sounds like our D's are very similar! All those same troubles, (she said she felt physically ill during geometry, but has no problem with algebra!) Still can't read an analog clock, but she can read a facial expression with frightening accuracy. Someone told me that female empathy really helps a lot of NVLD girls.

She has accommodations from the College Board, but she hates to use the extra time (other kids notice and call her stupid)...I guess I'd better ask the school psychologist about that before the test.

And yes, to you and momof3-- sounds like we're all pretty lucky in our kids. I do think that dealing with this kind of adversity makes a kid much more persistent and resourceful, and often more kind.

momofthreeboys

Kind, yes. I'm often told by the teachers that my son is kind. Which is a word you don't often hear about boys and especially high school boys. I doubt his high school football coach will ever say that though LOL. Maybe you are correct in your assesment.

jym626

momofthreeboys-
The KTEA and WIAT are achievement tests. The WJ has both an achievement and cognitive battery (standard and supplemental). If the evals are done in the schools, their scope and focus are different than private evals.

momofthreeboys

I'm going to do some reading. I should know more. The Woodcock was only done once and the Stanford-Binet once and never again. They also sometimes, not everytime do the Test of Written Language-3rd edition. I did understand that some of these were achievement as they were trying over time to see change via the achievement testing. That's interesting that you said the evals scope and focus are different than in private evals. I originally had my son scheduled to be evaluated outside the the school, but the principal called me and said that after talking to the teachers that the school would be willing to do the evaluation so I have never gone outside the school.