Yurtle

For quite a long time I've felt plain stupid when it comes to math: In second grade I cried over math homework, and in forth I wept over times tables (My parents had a teacher tutor me, and even then I struggled.) and each sucessive year of math has gotten worse and worse. When I entered High School, I had trouble but I wondered if it was the fact that my teachers switched suddenly rather than my learning.

But my mother has always commented that my math skills are generally over looked because I'm a gifted student. I do exceptionally well in my other classes, and did wonderfully in sciences without a lot of heavy calculating or figuring. (Biology and Environmental Science versus Honors Chemistry.)

I started to wonder more and more about this as I've found in Pre-calc all the equations I see on the board never *quite* come out the way they should when I write them down, or when I (in dismay) lose the 'x' or am subjected to giggles when I can't answer what x^3 * x equals, because I can't recall any of the rules of exponents (that have been reviewed in every math class *in* HS). I recently took a test, and one of the problems I did was right...save for the fact that two numbers had switched themselves. (Despite the fact that I had written down on my test that the odd numbers went in one place, and the evens went in another.)

I quickly pleaded with my math teacher that it was "obviously a moment of math dyslexia! I explained it over here, so those numbers just got mixed up!"

But that was neither the first, nor the last time numbers have done things I did not want them to. I did a little research and came up with the term Dyscalculia.

Quite simply, I have trouble with math. A lot of trouble, and even if I study, or ask for help, or peer review, nothing seems to help.

In fact, I looked up the common symptoms and found this:

Symptoms: Dyscalculia.org ~ Math Learning Disability Resource

Which covered things I had no idea would be included. (Severely poor at athletics, or dancing, trouble conceptualizing streets, maps, etc. I actually don't drive for this reason, and once got lost along the more major streets close to my neighborhood...I have difficulty with sequences of events, mental math, obssesively count cash before I use it, and am otherwise very creative and verbally/linguistically gifted. Everything but: Can't keep scores in games and unable to read music.)

I've logged countless hours of fruitless math learning, only to forget most everything on the test, or the formulas needed, or switch/lose/drop numbers. I've asked my current teacher nicely to allow for formula sheets on tests, make up work, re-doing of tests, or extra credit of some sort, but to no avail. My own Grandmother is a Math college teacher, and while known for being patient and kind, is often stumped when I suddenly 'lose' some of the equation she's helping me on, or multiply when I mean to add.

The only question I have then is, how do I approach my guidance counselor about what I believe is an actual problem somewhat beyond my control? I attend a public school...is it reasonable to ask if they can do diagnostic tests on me? If I do have a problem, can I explain my diagnosis to colleges via my counselor (and to a lesser extent the fact that my grades are barely passing in math?)

Is there a way to get help for this problem, or do I just have to grit my teeth and pray I don't fail math?

mildred

I would dare say that you totally could very well have dyscalculia. But, as this is the internet, take my statement with a grain of salt please.

Dyscalculia is by no means as well researched or as common a LD as dyslexia or something.

Speak with your parents and maybe even your granny as to how to go about being tested for this as soon as you can. I have no idea if your school would pay for it or what.

All public schools have different set amounts of funding for a thing or two and I doubt that anyone on this site could tell you without a shadow of a doubt that your school would pay for ld testing in full or what and that is why you must speak with your parents and maybe even your granny.

In the interim please chill. I am neither an internet doctor nor have I ever played one on you tube but, you might either have dyscalculia or maybe even a non verbal ld and those two things are different and are by no means mutually inclusive.

You are lucky in that you are self aware enough to look at your schooling and your current issues with math and the like with a positive minded proactive approach instead of being a debbie downer about things. Your perspective is really great and I am sure that your parents and maybe even your granny will respect your opinion and try to get you tested for a possible l.d.

I do not know what to tell you to do in the meantime. All I know is that you might have to just practice your math extra, extra hard. And using graph paper might help you out a lot with regards to copying notes on the board. Good luck. You are showing some great maturity with this!

Yurtle

Thanks.

I do usually use graph paper, and several pages of it, but my teacher has a tendancy to scrawl everywhere, and I find it harder than most to organize that. Normally, I try to copy things slowly, and in the step by step process, but my teacher often scribbles parts of steps off to the side, or merely talks about them, and never visually (writes out) what he has done.

I've looked up the sorts of things you should ask your teacher for help about: like using formulas on tests (Because I can't remember most of them.) but my teacher has repeatedly denied me, saying that I'm taking a college level class, and I should just 'remember'. (Of course, students of the college are allowed formula sheets, and key sequences for their calculators) That sort of thing.

I'll talk to my counselor. I may need to finish this semester of Pre-calc and switch into the online version second semester. When I take the class online, I noticed a few of the problems are intensely difficult, but I can sit with my grandmother one on one for several hours and complete the work with formulas in hand.

Thanks again.

Mitdu

Yurtle--

You and your parents can request that the school evaluate you for a learning disability. By federal law, this must be done at no charge. Put the request in writing to the Special Education Director. In most states, the eval must be done within 90 days.

At a minimum, the evaluation will include an IQ test and an achievement test. Achievement measures your performance in core subject areas such as reading, math calculation, math reasoning, spelling, etc.--and compares you to others your same age across the nation. I would ask that they do a math-intensive achievement test such as Key Math, and not rely only on the math section of the Woodcock-Johnson Achievement or WIAT Achievement. Getting more specific math results will help you better understand why math is harder for you.

Most IQ tests measure different types of IQ. Based on what you say, you might have a high verbal IQ but lower perceptual reasoning IQ. Perceptual reasoning IQ uses subtests such as matrices and something kind of like a Rubik's cube. The most common type of IQ test also measures your working memory IQ and your processing speed IQ.

Based on your eval results and a thorough review of your grades and performance in school, the school may classify you as having Specific Learning Disability, maybe in math reasoning or math calculation or both.

BUT--here's the big issue. What happens then? Well, you'd get an IEP. But then what? Chances are, you'll still have to grit your teeth and pray that you pass math. The diagnosis and/or the IEP won't change the requirements for graduation or getting into college. Or getting a college degree.

My d has real difficulty in math. She had an IEP for Other Health Impaired because of ADHD and various learning issues. The high school kept trying to put her in lower-performing math classes. But that would have prohibited her from going directly to a four-year college. She did spend 10th grade in an Integrated Math class--but it was too easy. But college-prep math was too hard. She couldn't keep up.

The hard reality is that, even with an IEP, the school isn't going to provide you with college-prep math curriculum at a slower pace. And an even harder reality is that colleges and employers don't make exceptions for people with learning differences, even though those differences are beyond your control.

For my d, she chose to return to college-prep math courses in 11th grade despite the school's objections. That meant she took five years worth of math in four years of high school. We hired a private tutor who specializes in kids who learn differently. D went to the private tutor every week. She also met at least once a week after school with her math teacher--to get help and also to show the teacher that d was really trying to succeed in that class.

She got a D in Geometry and a D in Algebra II, but she worked her buns off and she passed. The teachers both commented on how incredibly determined d was.

In 12th grade, she took Advanced Functions & Modeling (college prep math, but fewer rules to memorize) and she got an A. Other than math, D did pretty well in school, earned a decent GPA, was in National Honor Society, and got a nice scholarship.

She's now in college. Math is her hardest subject, but she's getting 1:1 tutoring through the disabilities office and she has a low C.

An eval will show where your weak areas are and could lead to an IEP. And the school can make some accommodations. With an IEP, you might be able to take math tests in a separate setting where you are allowed to use notes or formula sheets. But chances are, you'll have to work a lot harder in math--and still get lower grades.

Yurtle

Thanks, I'll ask about the test(s).

I think some maths I have less trouble with than others (Geometry I did decently in: B/C, and appreciated the proofs that fell into certain, specific, and labeled steps of solving the equations.) But others I have much more trouble with, like Algebra and Pre-calc (Where I teeter between a D and C.)

So specific results (even if I don't have a pin-pointed disorder) might give some insight to my problems.

As for college degrees, I actually researched colleges that allow for Logic to be taken as a quantitative reasoning (Math) course, or for a more practical (for me, anyways) Math Skills for Life/ Life Math class. I've seen logic equations in my Philosophy class, and think it might be an alternative come college as long as I'm careful with the symbols and steps. But I enjoy forming, and tearing apart arguments (like politics) and think that that may be easier for me to 'translate'. I will know once I try/take the test!

I really appreciate your answer, it's nice to know your D still did well. :3

mildred

Yurtle

I think you are darned mature and are totally on the right path with all of this.

There is totally such a thing of being gifted and ld and there is a web site called ldonline which would have more information on ld's whilst in high school, but they really do not have a great deal about dyscalculia or non verbal ld's.

Good luck and carry on with courage, sweetie!!

Keep everyone posted and good luck to you.

happymomof1

"I do usually use graph paper, and several pages of it, but my teacher has a tendancy to scrawl everywhere, and I find it harder than most to organize that. Normally, I try to copy things slowly, and in the step by step process, but my teacher often scribbles parts of steps off to the side, or merely talks about them, and never visually (writes out) what he has done."

When you have your IEP drawn up, request as specific accommodation in class that your teacher write out each step slowly and clearly on the board. Then, hold the teacher to that requirement! You won't be the only student who is helped by seeing things written down. There are probably a whole bunch of "regular" students whose grades will jump too.

Wishing you all the best.