MIT Admissions Have Become A Complete Joke - Page 34

collegealum314 · 06-06-2007, 06:05 PM

I highly doubt James Watson believes in selecting college students on anything but academic criteria. When he was interviewed recently, he said he felt uncomfortable when they were giving out community service awards to the college graduates. Roughly paraphrasing, he said college is the time where you are supposed to be working on yourself, not giving to others. He said that he was never a "do-gooder" when he was a kid and wasn't in boy scouts and didn't do community service. He said that giving back became important to him later and he thinks it's because he wasn't pressured to do it when he was a kid.

Incidentally, he mentioned that he got the highest score in reading comprehension in his high school but did not get A's in the physics classes he took at U. of Chicago.

No one is saying that you can't become a famous scientist if you don't have every academic qualification or strength, but naming famous scientists who scored low on some academic index doesn't mean you shouldn't take the people with the best academic qualifications. (Of course, this is subjective, but performance based on grades, class rigor, competitions, and teacher recs shouldn't be trumped by an essay describing "passion." Obviously, if one guy is higher grades than another but less impressive performance academic competitions, then you have to make a subjective choice.) Feynman won the New York Math Championships as a high school student--take him because of that. Watson was the best at reading comprehension as was showed by the test that his high school gave him--take him because of that. He was also highly respected by his teachers. No one uses IQ anyway--it is best used for elementary school students who don't really know anything yet and therefore can't be tested on it. Incidentally, some IQ tests have a ceiling of 129; who knows whether Feynman just made a couple of dumb errors on this test and ended up with a 125.

collegealum314 · 06-06-2007, 06:38 PM

To answer a question a few posts back, "self-selection" usually refers to the fact that people who are not qualified tend not to apply. That is why CalTech looks less selective than Harvard. There are less people on the low range who apply to CalTech than to Harvard.

InquilineKea · 06-06-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Third, this discussion shouldn't just be about the SAT. We already have tests that are arguably more effective, and we should work to create tests that are even better. Fairtest.org, the leading opponent of standardized tests, has a fact sheet comparing the SAT I, SAT II, and ACT. You would expect the sheet, entitled "Different Tests, Same Flaws," to provide evidence selected for its damning rejection of all three tests. Yet a validity study cited in the SAT II section, from the University of California system—an ideal environment thanks to its relatively wide range of students—actually shows that SAT II results had more predictive power than high school GPA. That's pretty remarkable, given Fairtest's blithe assertions that all standardized tests are worthless, soul-destroying shells.

Fact sheet:
http://www.fairtest.org/facts/univtestcomparison.html

==
Anyhow, I found this off someone's blog (but he took it off)

coffeenchicory1 · 06-07-2007, 11:21 AM

I wanted to say that I am shocked that MIT doesnt enjoy the reputation for creative genius that it deserves. Parents and students please take a look at the Media Lab- Good grief talk about convergence- arts plus science = future

collegealum314 · 06-07-2007, 06:12 PM

^^LOL someone needs to put coffeenchicory at work in the MIT public relations office!!

coffeenchicory1 · 06-07-2007, 07:47 PM

Collegealum I think the work the students and Profs are doing at MIT is inspiring they dont need PR leave that for the 'legacy lovers' at the other schools- they need the help in the PR dept.

crazy mom · 06-27-2007, 01:53 PM

I've slugged through this thread and now have a headache. The Cal Tech vs. MIT competition seems fierce. I think my son might have a chance at admission but I don't think we could afford it and I'm not sure he would be happy at either place, from the descriptions of them both.

He is a very balanced kid who is great at math and loves sports and music too. He has a perfect GPA, about 4.2 weighted, 4.0 not, a 36 ACT, a 232 PSAT, and have wondered if he should retake SAT. With no prep and a late night band contest the night before, he got a 2290, 800 math, 750 writing, 740 critical reading. He seemed to fit the numbers at either place but I didn't think he would have any hope at money. We are very middle class. He also attends a small midwestern public high school, where only AP opportunities are over the internet. His high school has about 480 students, and he is first in his class.

Would a kid like that, who is not nerdy at all, definitely shy and not a partier, but interested in things like sports and music, be happy at either of these schools? Am I wrong and the small public high school would make them not even consider him even though his numbers are OK? He is working as a camp counselor this summer and we have little time for visits. He was wanting to visit at least MIT, but now I'm wondering if a normal kid like him would fit in at all. It's not like he spends his days designing fighter planes or something, he'd rather shoot hoops or play tennis with his brother and friends.

collegealum314 · 06-27-2007, 02:12 PM

There are two important issues to consider. One is if english and the arts are very important to your son. I know your son is in a band, but that's not quite the same thing as what I'm talking about. Does the idea of a liberal arts environment appeal to your son? Even though you can take Harvard classes and MIT has good profs in the humanities, MIT still _feels_ like a pretty techy place.

The other issue is how he feels about the campus. Some people are totally turned off by MIT's campus. Others don't care about aesthetics. If your son's ideal college environment is a place like Amherst, he will be probably be very unhappy at a place like mit.

I'm not sure what to say about the workload...I think the style of teaching feels very different at Caltech/mit versus peer schools that are liberal arts universities. The firehose technique at CalTech/mit may not be the best for your son even if he does want to be an intense student.

crazy mom · 06-27-2007, 02:39 PM

Thanks for the info. He definitely is more interested in math, science, engineering, as subjects and careers, he just has other interests in his life. He loves to read, but hates English class, so I don't think he really is interested in a LAC kind of place. On the other hand, when he has down time, he would rather do something active then play video games or something. I take it nobody at these schools likes to go out and shoot hoops or play music or do anything that is not utilizing the math/science side of their brains? i don't think he is that into how a place looks, just more that he will fit in and find people with common interests. He has no problem with workloads, he is very disciplined, and as I said, not interested in the party scene. However, physical activity is a must for him. A lot about Notre Dame appeals to him except that they do not appear to be that strong in the areas he is interested in majoring in, either the sciences or engineering.

Mikalye · 06-27-2007, 02:41 PM

Crazy mom,

Don't believe all of the hype. There are a lot of kids just like your son at MIT (and I presume Caltech). There is a small minority of kids who get most of the press. Frankly, "Bob built a fission reactor in his bedroom" just makes a better headline than "Bob is a nice kid who likes sports". Most kids at MIT are for want of a better word "normal".

For example, most of the MIT students get involved in MIT's extensive Intramural program in 19 sports with tiered levels from A ("we are good enough to play intercollegiately, but instead/also we play for an IM team) to D ("we are mostly incompetent at this but we'll give it a bash"). Indeed watching an D-level IM ice hockey game is a fine spectator sport for comedy alone. Most people play at B or C level. And when I say most, I do mean it literally. Most of the campus plays rather than a small minority.

This is really the purpose of the visit, if you can manage it. It's really about walking around, talking to people, and trying to figure out "Do I feel comfortable here?". When I visited, I sat in on a number of literature and philosophy classes. I figured that the tech would be excellent, but I had a misplaced concern about the humanities subjects (which were by and large also excellent).

There is a rivalry between MIT and Caltech, which is tempered somewhat by the fact that the two schools are very far away from each other. There is also a more muted rivalry between MIT and Harvard (which is tempered somewhat by the cross-registration program).

At this level, picking a school is all about match. I went to MIT and a close friend of mine from High School went a mile down the road to Harvard. We got together socially a few times and yet, when I was in the Harvard buildings the school always felt a little bit pretentious in a way that made me slightly uncomfortable. By contrast my friend felt similarly about MIT, but was completely comfortable at Harvard.

As to getting in, being from a small public high school won't count against you, indeed, it might count in your favour. As to money, the way that the MIT Financial Aid office works is to figure out exactly what you can afford and to demand all of that, and then to make up the rest in aid. I consider myself solidly middle-class and I could not have afforded to go to MIT without the aid. The FA office is based around the idea that if the admissions office indicated that they wanted a particular young man or woman, then the FA office has to ensure that they can afford to attend. That being said, when I said that they asked for all we could afford, but no more, they did ask for all we could afford.

Try to pick the school where they feel happy, and (almost) all of the rest of it is irrelevant. You are picking not just a school but a home for four years. Good luck with your search,

Mikalye · 06-27-2007, 02:44 PM

I take exception to collegealum314's

Quote:

Some people are totally turned off by MIT's campus. Others don't care about aesthetics.

I do care about aesthetics and I do not dislike MIT's campus. I accept freely that it has a very different look and feel to an Amherst or a Wesleyan, but that make it different, not worse.

Indeed there are some very beautiful buildings at MIT, as anyone who has stood inside the MIT chapel can attest.

mootmom · 06-27-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

I do care about aesthetics and I do not dislike MIT's campus.

I will second Mikalye's comment. And there are some parts of MIT's campus that are uniquely beautiful even in a "traditional college campus" sense.

crazy mom · 06-27-2007, 02:58 PM

Thanks Mikalye. I'm sure you were in the same dilemma as we are, he can get a free ride several places, so if we are going to forgo his little brother's braces or something else to send him to MIT, we sure want to make sure he will be happy there. Just even doing the college visits is expensive enough. Thanks for your help.

over30 · 06-27-2007, 03:38 PM

Crazy mom, I have a rising senior and freshman at MIT. My oldest spends a lot of time programming (he's a CS major and programs for fun), but he's taken ice skating, snow skiing (twice) and springboard diving. He also plays a lot of ultimate frisbee, is on a dodge ball team, runs along the Charles for exercise, and plays some basketball. He plays a little guitar in his spare time and listens to a lot of music. He has a smart, funny and beautiful girlfriend (MIT student).

Youngest son will be very involved in non-varsity athletics, especially soccer, basketball and ultimate frisbee. He hates to run but will be bringing a bike to explore Cambridge and Boston. He doesn't spend a lot of time on the computer because he's too busy doing other stuff. He's also planning on joining the marching band. (And he's looking for a smart, funny and beautiful girlfriend.)

Neither of my kids are 'partiers' although both enjoy being with friends, especially the youngest. Neither is interested in fraternities. And I think anyone who knows them would say that both are very normal.

Whether MIT is right for your son is a decision only he can make, but there are certainly others like your son there. Good luck!

molliebatmit · 06-27-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

I take it nobody at these schools likes to go out and shoot hoops or play music or do anything that is not utilizing the math/science side of their brains?

On the contrary, many, many people at MIT like to do those things. About 60% of the student body is involved in the arts, 20% play varsity athletics, and 80% are involved in non-varsity (club and intramural) sports.

My fiance and I were both athletes at MIT -- I was on the cheerleading squad, and he's a freestyle skiier. I was pretty involved in the arts before coming to MIT (show choir, theatre, band), but when I came to MIT I decided I wanted to try something new.