cheersfan

What are the pros and cons of ESG and Concourse? In general, what types of students apply to these programs?

mootmom

There have been a couple threads about these programs here on CC, use the search function to locate them (and search in the child forums also, like the ones for each graduation year). This thread was specific to ESG and had comments from several participants, and from the parents of several participants:

Esg

I'd go on record saying ESG was one of the best things my son did for himself at MIT, in all kinds of ways.


(PS: The ESG website is pretty honest and offers a wealth of information.)

PiperXP

ESG is WONDERFUL. Basically, smaller classes (which freshman classes generally aren't) and a community atmosphere. You get an immediate social network of really cool people, a comfy lounge where everyone hangs out, events that where y'all can hang out (from movie nights to kayak trips). I joined ESG second semester of freshman year and I wish I had joined sooner...

molliebatmit

I've had friends in both ESG and Concourse, and both have really been pleased with them.

There will be information sessions for both during orientation, so if you're interested at all, you should definitely check out the info sessions -- I'm sure they have former students on hand to talk about the programs.

jessiehl

I know little about Concourse, but I've had a bunch of friends in ESG. It seems to be a great program that most people really like. The one big drawback I can see is that a minority of the students have trouble adjusting to non-ESG classes. But this has only been the case for a couple of people out of all the ESG people I have known.

la montagne

If ESG is so awesome, why doesn't everyone want to join?... what kind of people are normally attracted to it?

PiperXP

First, not everyone reads the information MIT sends obsessively - so they don't know about it. Second, there are other groups - Concourse, Terrascope, etc - that people would much rather be part of. It's awesome, but it's not the only great option =D. (Though too many people *do* apply to ESG. This year a lot of people were turned away.)

kryptonsa36

To answer la montagne, those things obviously aren't right for everyone. I didn't even consider ESG, Concourse, etc. because I felt ready to jump into the mainstream, in-your-face, classic, large lecture approach to all the classes (all of which turned out to be not so large that they were utterly intolerable, unlike 7.013 appears this semester). Specifically, I even heard the drawback of doing those programs is that they delay your experience with full-blown MIT classes, though that issue varies with the program. I felt high school exposed me to enough academic rigor that I wouldn't need to rely on the group of people there to help you adjust that those programs provide; if you don't feel your high school did that adequately, then those programs may be right for you. There are obviously more factors than that to consider, but since I didn't join those programs, I couldn't tell you what they are.

In any case, there are those who don't regret their decision to do ESG, Concourse, etc., but there are just as many people who are satisfied with their decision not to partake in them.

mootmom

kryptonsa36, my son's experience bore no resemblance to what you're suggesting is the reason people join ESG.

His high school preparation could not have been any more rigorous; he joined ESG for the opportunity to MOVE AHEAD AT A FAST PACE. Rather than be held back by the pace of the large lectures in some classes, the ESG sections flew ahead, adding more depth or extra material where the small group wanted to move deeper into it. It was a "move at your own (fast) pace", not an adjustment. No one I met in ESG was having adjustment problems: they were ALL fast movers and quick studies. ESG was a chance for them to do deep dives wherever they wanted, in very close working relationships with the instructors and their fellow ESGers. And my son, along with most of the folks in ESG his year, designed his own program, taking some ESG classes and some large-lecture classes. It really was the best of all worlds for him. (And of course like any choice, it would not be best for everyone.)

Plus there was lots of free food.

lalaloo6

^^ Wow, ESG sounds really cool. Above it was mentioned that it's hard to get into? How are people chosen to participate in ESG?

mootmom

lalaloo6, I don't know if it's changed but in past years, ESG was capped at 50 students. If no more than 50 signed up at Orientation, they all joined. If over 50 signed up, there was a lottery to select the 50 participants. Sounds from what PiperXP said that they had to go to the lottery this past year. (The previous couple years I believe they did not.)

PiperXP

Yep, lots and lots of free food. I agree with mootmom - it's not some remedial program. Most ESGers take half their classes in mainstream anyway. (And yes, they lotteried this year.)

That said, some people don't like small classes. The thing about ESG is that it's very noticeable if you miss class, so if you plan on doing that (you shouldn't) then you won't like it =D.

jessiehl

kryptonsa36, that's kind of condescending (the implication that people join groups like ESG as a crutch).

People have all different reasons for joining or not joining. Some like smaller/bigger classes. Some want a particular professor. Some want to hear the material twice in a lecture and in recitation, from two different people, not just once from one person in a small class. Some have scheduling issues. Some do/don't like whatever the current ESG (or other freshman program) social crowd is. Some people want the focus in a field that a particular program (like Terrascope) provides. And so on.

kryptonsa36

I could have been specific and said ESG was the exception, and that Concourse was whom that comment was probably targeted at, but I was merely redirecting a statement some ESG friends made, so no doubt it just would've been biased.

As for "moving ahead at a fast pace", why don't you just take a harder class? 18.022 was psychotically fast-paced, -and- it offered a wonderfully small class size (for a lecture-style class). Or in the case of students who consider "fast-paced" to be moving ahead to classes that aren't generally for freshmen, like 5.13, etc.? ESG caters to neither of those.

mootmom

My son took 18.022 his first semester and was also in ESG.

Whatever. Clearly it wasn't right for you or your friends, but it was clearly right for others.