mootmom

Anecdotal reply: From my son's HS class of 120, 13 students were admitted to MIT (and 12 of them were cross-admits to Stanford). Of those 12, 6 chose to attend MIT, 3 chose Stanford, 1 chose Harvard, 1 chose Princeton, and I forget where the other one went. One of those at Stanford is miserable and mentions regularly how he wishes he'd chosen MIT. (He tried to transfer, and visits often. My guess is that he will graduate from Stanford and go to MIT for grad school.) The other two at Stanford seem to be fine with their choice. I don't know of any of the 6 at MIT who regret their decision between the two schools.

PumpkinPi, roughly where in the country are you located? Would one or the other school be more familiar in location? (And do you consider that a good thing or a non-adventurous thing?) What is there about each environment, culture, and student population that might recommend -- or recommend against -- one or the other? I like to recommend the pretending activity, where you wake up and tell yourself you are no longer allowed to attend one, you must instead go to the other. And see how that feels for a few hours. Then swap your mindset and pretend it was all a joke, that your admission to the second school was rescinded. Turn the tables and observe whether you feel relieved to be assigned to the first school or disappointed. Sometimes there is enough truth in the reactions that it can help with the decision.

Either school is going to be great, it's not as if there's a wrong answer. Here's hoping the decision gets made soon!

CalAlum

@Pumpkinpi--
Stanford is a great school. In fact, I'm teaching there right now. But I have to agree with Mollie. The issues related to teaching are probably similar at both institutions.

Let your son decide based on where he'd like to live for four years.

CalAlum

@Lizbee--
I'm sorry to hear about the bad experiences. For those reading the board, including prospective students, I'd like to say that my daughter's experience this year as a freshman has been quite different. She was lucky to have Denis Auroux this fall, a calculus teacher so beloved that his class gave him a standing ovation at the end of the semester. She's visited all of her science professors during office hours, and although they may give the large lectures, she's found them extremely personable and helpful. In fact, her fall physics professor helped her find a physics UROP this summer.

PiperXP

@Lizbee - I am currently in 5.111, and I think many students got used to the first professor (the class has two professors, one for earlier material and one for later, much like 7.012 in the fall). The first professor guided us very much - the second one is very hands-off. He pushes us hard.

Practice problems? There are about 20 problems on the pset every week, and he's stated that the test will be similar problems, so you're practicing by doing an almost ridiculous amount of homework. Readings? It's not that hard to look up - I know that chapters 10 and 11 cover the acid/base stuff we're doing now. And while many professors have specific office hours for a couple of hours a week, he welcomes students into his office any time. I personally don't have a problem with him. I'll agree with the other students and say that 5.111 is probably better in the fall - but that's because of the students, not the prof. Many students in 5.111 spring are students that failed it in the fall, and this just makes for a worse class.

LauraN

After freshman year, I've never had a problem approaching any of my professors. They ALL have office hours that anyone can just show up at. I've had some very positive experiences with some awesome professors who have given me some great personal attention when I knew to seek it out. Yeah, freshman year it's a little tougher to do that. But can you really expect a professor to make himself available to all 500+ students in his lecture? That just can't be done.

Also, I'd just like to throw in what is basically my personal life motto: "There is more to life than your GPA." Geez I must sound like a broken record to you guys. =)

jessiehl

Yes, there are some bad and uncaring professors. Yes, there are some incompetent TAs. There are also wonderful examples of both. It happens.

Students have to be proactive, though. If you have a bad TA, change your section. If you have a bad professor, there are other ways to learn the material. If you don't understand, go talk to the professor or the TA, or another section's TA, or your friends who already took the class. Talk to your friends about the professors and whether they are any good before you take the class - in my experience, people's thoughts on this were usually right. Or, in some departments, read the student guides to the classes. If you aren't given reading assignments, for heaven's sake, look up the topic in your textbook, or, if there's no textbook (or an awful textbook) for the class, a textbook in one of the libraries.

MIT is not a good place for people who expect to be handed things. Students are expected to be very independent. There are plenty of resources and options if you go looking.

Back to the OP's question: OP, you're missing the point. Those sentiments - I Hate This F***ing Place and I Have Truly Found Paradise - coexist in each individual student. That's the point. It's not an issue of any given person feeling one or the other.

I have an old blog entry that's sort of about this: MIT Admissions | Blog Entry: "I?TFP"

Suicide Prevention Days are a joke, by the way, not something really heavy.

collegealum314

I'd like to address the comment that MIT is a bad place for premeds. First of all, it clearly true that there is grade deflation at MIT. It IS harder than our ivy competitors. That's not something to be embarassed about. Harvard and Princeton admitted recently they had too much grade inflation. Specifically at Princeton, one guy told me that the molecular bio major (and most other majors) had ridiculous grade inflation; however, the grading of the chem major was pretty brutal so none of the premeds majored in chemistry there.

However, there are ways to protect your GPA, especially if you are fairly confident about your abilities. For one, you could take classes like organic chem on pass/fail if that is hard for you--or you could take it during the summer somewhere else. GIR's can be taken for the most part on pass/fail. Don't major in engineering unless you are really confident and interested in it. Again, you can try it out on pass/fail. A lot of people who are premed get themselves in trouble by majoring in chemE or EECS just because it's hard--sort of a macho thing. Also, space out your classes. Like someone said, there is some peer pressure to take many technical classes a term. If you come in with a fair amount of credit, it could be possible to take only 1-2 technical classes a term. The less you put on your plate, the easier it will be. Lastly, don't do extracurriculars right away unless you are one of those people that needs it as a stress-reliever. (I'm not talking about intramurals; I'm talking about major time commitments like a varsity sport.) Try to get established first before you try to do things to round out your application. One guy I knew who went to Harvard Med and was a mechanical engineering major at MIT said that he basically studied all the time the first two years (even though the first year was on pass/fail and he didn't really have to study to pass his classes.) If passing is easy for you on pass/fail, then go for straight "A"s. Do your best, and it will be easier to do that in the following semesters.

PumpkinPi

Hi All,
Thank you for your words of advice. My S is still debating, and totally distracted. Last night he said Stanford (at dinner), the MIT later, then Stanford at breakfast. Either place will be a geographical adventure. He loves urban Boston but the Farm is beautiful. He is social, but loves math/engineering and relates well across groups. He's not sure about grad school, and likes the idea of a co-terminal masters. The price is right at Stanford, not MIT, but we promised to "make it happen" wherever he goes. He inherited his indecisiveness from me. Thanks for any other thoughts that could persuade him (or me, actually).

differential

@collegealum314: "sort of a macho thing."

There are n00bs out there. Someone must pwn those n00bs and free the internets of their stupidity. Everything else is low-priority.

polarisking

differential: "There are n00bs out there. Someone must pwn those n00bs and free the internets of their stupidity. Everything else is low-priority."

What on earth are you talking about?

CalAlum

@Pumpkinpi--
Re: Stanford vs. MIT.

The level of work is the same, but there's a perception that Stanford students are far more laid back. Not true. Have you heard the saying, "Stanford students are like ducks on a pond"? The pond looks so placid and calm in the sunlight, but beneath the surface, those ducks are paddling like mad just to stay afloat.

The student culture and the campus feel of MIT and Stanford are very, very different. I hope your son had a chance to visit both places.

collegealum314

"The level of work is the same"

I doubt it...

CalAlum

@collegealum,
On what do you base your opinion?

differential

@CalAlum,
On what do you base your prior assertion that the level of work is the same? Unless someone went to both schools for undergraduate, I can't see how someone could say this. Also performance after coming out of school is useless, since level of work is level of work, and there is often no correlation between how hard you work (after a certain point) and how well you do.

CalAlum

^^What I mean by "the level of work is the same" is that both Stanford and MIT offer a challenging course of study to students majoring in comparable courses: engineering or physics or English, for example.

This conclusion is based on the many individuals I know here in Silicon Valley who have graduated from either MIT or Stanford. I have also taught both MIT and Stanford graduates over the past ten years or so.

Because I'm currently teaching at Stanford, I'm familiar with some of the courses here, and because some of MIT's courseware is available online, I'm somewhat familiar with MIT's courseware.

Finally, anyone interested in comparing the level of difficulty in courses in the two programs has only to log on to the respective websites of the institutions to view the courses of study.