syzonin

....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
this is too funny.

rascalmuffin

maybe people think youre complaining because as soon as someone mentions a statistic theyve found you rip their throat apart, blaming them for trying to help out other people who may want it.

yeah you cant base a decision solely on statistics but it helps to know that a school has a good reputation.

drmambo

help...out...other people?

That's a funny statement, especially on a thread that's as bull***** as they come.

I "rip...apart" (you gotta love quote rewording) statistics when they're wrong. You want to talk about helping people out. I'm trying to help people who don't know anything about McGill get a fair and absolutely clear picture. That's why I'm naturally opposed to "objective" measures of a very very subjective experience and topic. "Quality" has always been a subjective topic so the second someone comes up with a way to objectively measure it, one should be questioning of said method.

Use your own judgment for a sec, and think about this. Stanford, Johns Hopkins, and a myriad of other top notch (privately funded) institutions are below McGill on a world ranking...Also, Purdue University has a change in position that's over 100 places... McGill's good, don't get me wrong, but we aren't that good. No University who's TA's are striking against it should merit a 12th in the world ranking, unless its in the category of "underfundedness". I'm not saying more $$ = better institution, I'm saying more $$ usually means happier employees, and since employees (TA's) make this university...You connect the dots.

There's no doubt that we're first tier internationally (that is, if we allow the first tier to be reasonably sized, and not just reserved for 5 or 6 universities). It's just the relativeness of the entire Time's World Ranking system is questionable.

You kids don't appreciate good help when it's right in front of you (a common trait among the caliber of student interested in McGill). You want everything spoon-fed to you, opinions are no exception. Everyone wants to believe great things about where they go or want to go to school; however the TRUTH (something everyone deserves) is this: McGill isn't perfect. A goal of mine is making sure everyone (here) understands what they're getting into, when they enroll here. If you'd rather blindly just follow and believe, go for it. I'm sorry I tried.

p.s. if no one could realize yet, Ocikat = llld, the thread starter. Don't listen to half of the crap that kid says, he's purely here to spread pro-McGill propaganda.

Ocikat

I agree with
this,
"I'm trying to help people who don't know anything about McGill get a fair and absolutely clear picture."
and
"You want to talk about helping people out. I'm trying to help people who don't know anything about McGill get a fair and absolutely clear picture. That's why I'm naturally opposed to "objective" measures of a very very
subjective experience and topic. "
and this "Ocikat = llld"
but not this nonsense.
"Don't listen to half of the crap that kid says, he's purely here to spread pro-McGill propaganda."

swampfox

dr mambo

I don't see what TAs striking necessarily has to do with a school's quality. NYU's TAs were the highest paid in the US and they struck nontheless a couple years back. NYU responded by no longer providing stipends to TAs. The bottom line is TA pay is not a great indicator of anything. There are differences in cost of living, area standards, and workload. I know the TAs striking at McGill has adversely affected some students by delaying final grades where labs were properly turned over to TAs but not thereafter provided to profs. From my observations and experience, I would have to say that McGill is one of the more demanding universities in the world in terms of requirements and workload. While it may be easier to get into McGill than into most if not all of the Ivies, getting out of McGill with a high gpa is a lot tougher. In that regard, McGill is old-fashioned and traditional, while being situated in one of the most vital college student friendly cities in the world. There certainly are more distractions for students in Montreal than most college towns. So, if you survive and prosper at McGill, you'll do so anywhere.

BIGTWIX

i dont think the point of dr mambo is to say McGill is easy or bad, as he know and attests that it is neither.

His point is that you cannot measure a subjective measure with a number.

Think about it! Who the hell has such divine authority as to say McGill is #12 in the world, and that's a fact. There are many facts in this world that can be and are based on evidence. McGill being 12 is not.

Why the **** would someone say McGill is 12 and be so closed to the idea that all those other rankings say otherwise. Last I checked, most other rankings were placing it between 35-60 in the world, not 12. Just because one has McGill ranked higher doesnt make it more right, nor wrong either. But because you cannot be sure of any rankings, than you cant propagate that one is correct over another.

There's a big difference between saying:
"McGill was recently ranked #12 university in the world by a publication ranking undergrad universities of the world"

And

"McGill is the 12th best university in the world 4 undergrad. You can't argue because it was ranked #12"

It was also ranked in the 40s etc, so that makes the first statement ********, as all rankings are subjective and prone to different results.

drmambo

Swampfox, you are absolutely correct, the TA strike has nothing to do with the quality, per se. The strike does, however, serve as an indicator of how much the university really gives a ***** about its undergrads. When a university says "we don't have the money to meet demand X", and demand X directly stands to benefit the undergrads, you should question a few things. McGill's endowment isn't peanuts, we do have the money, it's just McGill doesn't want to dip "too" much into it.

The point of my post, I guess to summarize because you might have missed it, had nothing to do with what kind of institution McGill is, or what graduating from McGill means. It also had nothing to do with the rigor of McGill. I purely said these things, 1) rankings are silly, and 2) for the most part, McGill is first tier internationally, however that requires an understanding that there are A LOT of universities in the world, so the tier should have enough seats at the table that schools other than the ivies can sit down.

A lot of people don't actually know what the TA's are asking for, and it's a shame. I've gotten the low-down from several people, grad student and professor a like, and I'll say this: there's not a demand on the table that isn't reasonable. This however, is under the notion that money grows on trees. I realize some concessions are going to have to be met, however, that should be by both sides. There is money here, though not a dragon's share of it. McGill is poor, but not as poor as it claims.

For information on what's up, check out these links:

TA strike

P.O.V.: McGill TA strike

Just some more googling will probably find you all the information you could ever want.

Student1

Most students on campus take the whole "#12 in the world" thing as a joke. No doubt it's a great school, but don't get your head too far up your ass.

Ocikat

Ah you see, McGill has always been placed in top 25 or so in THES and around top 50 in other major world rankings.

"McGill is first tier internationally, however that requires an understanding that there are A LOT of universities in the world, so the tier should have enough seats at the table that schools other than the ivies can sit down."

Oh definately, top 100 schools are top tier. (in my oppinion)

BIGTWIX

well THES has only been ranking schools for four years.

Ocikat

Not much a difference, Shanghai's ARWU ranked schools for 5 years.

syzonin

oh it doesnt matter how many years old the rankings are, since just as unreliable rankings are also that old.

BIGTWIX

i wasnt talking about shanghai. Always just seems a ridiculous modifier for a ranking that's "always" covers only 4 years.

And agree sith syzonin. All rankings are not legit.

MoopyTheCat

I notice a lot of McGill students are rather "testy" (to put it lightly) on the topic of McGill's reputaton.

As I page through forum posts that include McGill University on dozens of college forums, I've seen embarassing posts by McGill students claiming that McGill is equal to or better than Harvard, Columbia, Yale. In fact, a minority of McGill students have managed to earn the school a reputation that is... well... egotistical, obnoxiously proud.

I've been told by word of mouth that the McGill student body is a number of things: stuck-up, egotistical, snooty because they think they attend Harvard, etc. Understandably, these are not the things prospective students want to hear. Its also embarassing.

In my opinion, I believe McGill students wish their school was included on American rankings so that they could get a clear picture of where it stands. Since it is not, McGill students have some varied opinions from: "McGill is a has-been" to "McGill is equal to Columbia and Harvard." I hope the information I have found helps.


There is an internet site (Search for Colleges and Universities, Graduate Schools, Online Degree, Private Schools - Peterson's) that shows the average acceptage SAT, ACT and GPA scores of students accepted to any university in North America. It also shows the percentage of students that apply to the university and percentage of students who are accepted. Although this does not shed light on McGill's ranking or reputation, it definitely shows us the student body.

This shows the mid 50% of ACT Scores (East coast schools emphasis):

-------------------------------------------------- % students with:-------
College Name - Avg ACT Score - Avg SAT score - Over 24 ACT - Over 30 ACT
Harvard..............31-35 1400-1590
MIT.............. 31-34.............. 1380-1560
Northwestern.............. 30-34.............. 1350-1520
Tufts.............. 30-32.............. 1340-1490
Rice.............. 29-34.............. 1310-1530
Georgetown.............. 29-33.............. 1300-1490
UPenn.............. 29-33.............. 1330-1520
Stanford.............. 29-33.............. 1340-1550
Duke.............. 29-34.............. 1340-1540
Dartmouth.............. 28-34.............. 1330-1550
Uni of Chicago.............. 28-33.............. 1330-1530
Columbia.............. 28-33.............. 1340-1540
Brown.............. 28-33.............. 1330-1530
Cornell.............. 28-32.............. 1290-1500
McGill Uni.............. 29-31.............. 1280-1460
New York Uni.............. 28-31.............. 1240-1430
UCLA.............. 28-31.............. 1360-1480
Boston College.............. 27-32.............. 1240-1430
Uni of Michigan.............. 27-31.............. 1220-1420
Yale.............. not avail............... 1400-1590
Purdue Uni.............. 23-28.............. 1020-1270
Smith.............. 25-30.............. 1150-1380


Uni of Miami 27-31 1180-1370
Uni of Florida 25-29 1140-1360
Syracuse Uni 24-29 1110-1330
Texas A&M 23-28 1080-1300

MoopyTheCat

Another interesting aspect to a university is the percentage of students in a university who scored over 600 and 700

on the ACT (for schools on the East Coast). This will give you some insight on the students with whom you will be associating.

---------------------------

School Name......% of students who earned more than 24 or 30 on the ACT:

Tufts University:
ACT scores over 24 99%
ACT scores over 30 76%

University of Chicago:
ACT scores over 24 87%
ACT scores over 30 74%

Duke University:
ACT scores over 24 96%
ACT scores over 30 72%

Rice University:
ACT scores over 24 96%
ACT scores over 30 71%

Stanford University:
ACT scores over 24 98%
ACT scores over 30 70%

Dartmouth College:
ACT scores over 24 94%
ACT scores over 30 67%

Brown University:
ACT scores over 24 96%
ACT scores over 30 63%

Columbia University:
ACT scores over 24 98%
ACT scores over 30 65%

Cornell University
Test Scores:
ACT scores over 24 90%
ACT scores over 30 56%

Boston College
Test Scores:
ACT scores over 24 95%
ACT scores over 30 58%

McGill University:
ACT scores over 24 100%
ACT scores over 30 55%

New York University:
ACT scores over 24 99%
ACT scores over 30 45%

University of Michigan:
ACT scores over 24 93%
ACT scores over 30 43%

UCLA:
ACT scores over 24 79%
ACT scores over 30 35%

Smith College:
ACT scores over 24 86%
ACT scores over 30 29%

Purdue University:
ACT scores over 24 67%
ACT scores over 30 18%

-------------------
For a complete picture, here are a few 2nd tier universities:

Ohio State University:
ACT scores over 24 87%
ACT scores over 30 23%

University of Georgia:
ACT scores over 24 87%
ACT scores over 30 22%

Texas A&M:
ACT scores over 24 70%
ACT scores over 30 16%

University of Indiana, Bloomington:
ACT scores over 24 74%
ACT scores over 30 15%

University of Colorado, Boulder:
ACT scores over 24 72%
ACT scores over 30 15%

University of San Diego:
ACT scores over 24 80%
ACT scores over 30 14%

Michigan State University:
ACT scores over 24 66%
ACT scores over 30 11%

University of Cincinnati:
ACT scores over 24 54%
ACT scores over 30 9%

Arizona University:
ACT scores over 18 88%
ACT scores over 24 37%
ACT scores over 30 2%


And, for fun, a few non-competative regional universities:

Northern Kentucky University:
ACT scores over 18: 58%
ACT scores over 24 24%
ACT scores over 30 2%

Livingstone College:
ACT scores over 18 21%
ACT scores over 24 3%
ACT scores over 30 0%

Shaw University:
ACT scores over 18 18%
ACT scores over 24 1%
ACT scores over 30 0%

As everyone can see, McGill is a VERY nice University. More than 50% of McGill's students scored more than 30 on the ACT. However, there is quite a difference between McGill's 50% and the University of Chicago's 70%. After writing this post, I have really gained respect for Rice University, Tufts and Duke - all which have a student body of more than 70% who earned more than 30 on their ACT tests. Quite impressive!

By posting these statistics, I am hoping that McGill students will know that they are attending a great school and, at the same time, will stop posting that McGill is equal to Harvard, Yale, MIT, Columbia and a number of other schools. You are ruining McGill's reputation.

If you would like to generate statistics yourself, here is the site:

www. petersons .com

Its a great site .