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taffytaffy Posts: 2,356- Senior Member
edited September 2005 in Military Academy - West Point
A friend of the family began his experience at westpoint many years ago, being admitted to westpoint on a football scholarship. in their boot camp or whatever, they had him taking some weird pills or whatever, and he lost like 30 pounds (he wasnt fat, probably average healthy weight). he was then kicked off the football team. he told his family about regular hazing of freshmen. he said that he was excused from the hazing because he was on the football team, but once he lost his scholarship to the team, he was in the same pool as any other freshman. he said hazing was a huge issue at westpoint, and the administration doesnt seem to give two ****s about it. he said once they made a freshman girl eat a whole salt-shaker's-fullness of salt, and she ended up in the hospital. This school seems to be very strict, and treat the students like little trouble makers, lower classmen cant have cars, and your stuck in the military until your like 30. it just doesnt seem worth it to me... can anybody counter what i said? id like to be enlightened

he is now flying black hawk helicopters in south korea.
Post edited by taffy on
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Replies to: Hazing

  • shogunshogun Posts: 1,895Registered User Senior Member
    I dont think anyone would deny that there was some intense hazing at the academies in times past. Probably a bit going on still. Anyone still active duty in the military at 30 after going to West Point had to have "re-upped" on their own accord, no one is forcing them. West Point is not for everyone, it's one of the toughest schools in the nation to get into for a very good reason. If you have any doubts about going there, don't. Ask your friend if he would trade not going to West Point for not being able to fly Black Hawk helicoptors...my guess is he wouldn't. When one goes to West Point he/she isn't "stuck in the military", he/she has volunteered to serve his/her nation in return for the privilage of attending one of the finest schools that nation has to offer.
  • taffytaffy Posts: 2,356- Senior Member
    after graduating westpoint in 4 years, dont you serve 8 years?
  • KateLewisKateLewis Posts: 606Registered User Member
    Your active duty commitment after graduation is 5 years. Afterwards you're in the reserves for another (3?) years. I think pilot training, in some branches, can extend your active duty commitment.
  • aspenaspen Posts: 748Registered User Member
    Taffy:

    Don't know if this answers your question/comment, but here goes. Is West Point a more rules-oriented environment than non-military colleges? Of course it is. If you don't want to be ordered around, then you will dislike a military academy. It's like going to the beach and then complaining about all the sand and water. It's the nature of the beast.

    Are cadets treated like "trouble makers" ? If you mean are first-year cadets ordered-around and stripped of their individuality; then I would answer yes. That's part of the leadership development program. First let them know what it feels like to be a "recruit", part of a team, and then build the cadets up to be a leader. Although I have heard few cadets claim they enjoyed the process, mostly all of them acknowledged its merits. For some balance, compare the level of responsibility and leadership development given to upper class cadets with the responsibilities afford the average college junior and senior. No contest.

    Does hazing still go on? Probably to some degree. Certainly nothing like it did 30 years ago. I, personally, think hazing is a sadistic ritual. But others think it a vital part of building camaraderie within a group. Either way, the academies have been under tremendous pressure to minimize hazing. I would suggest you talk to a more current cadet and ask them about their experience.

    Finally, if you view being in the military as a penalty, then the academy is the wrong place for you. You wouldn't go to auto mechanics tech school and then complain that you have to work around cars. There's a reason West Point is call the United States Military Academy.

    Good luck on your quest for enlightenment.
  • taffytaffy Posts: 2,356- Senior Member
    hehe thanks, i am enlightened :D
  • davygravy3davygravy3 Posts: 380Registered User Member
    what is this? Siddhartha?
  • julieswimmer23julieswimmer23 Posts: 5Registered User New Member
    another point of correction... as a cadet at a military school i can tell you this much... if your an athelete you do get out of EVERYTHING. it is about time that he got a taste of what really happens at a military school. its not hazing. most of the time when we get PT'd (physically trained) because of a disciplinary problem for doing something dumb and against the rules yes you do 1000 over head arm claps, push ups, rowboats... you name it... we've done it... you don't get it done to you for no good reason. and by the way... you don't go to west point on a football scholarship. you can be recruited for football and get kicked off of the team. my friend is getting recruited for tennis... i feel sorry for her because she has no clue what she is getting herself into and when she gets there and she sees that she can't hack it militarily and she too will see it as hazing. yes it is bonding time between the upper chain and the lower chain of command. because if you want to PT your cadets as a punishment you have to do it with them. so if your going to haze them you also haze yourself for being a bad commander. so yes... military schools are a place to be out of choice... you have to realize that its not hazing... if you look at it as such you won't make it past the first week... been there... done that...
  • taffytaffy Posts: 2,356- Senior Member
    thanks. yeah i can understand pushups and physical training like that, but i dont see where eating all the salt in a salt shaker then ending up in the hospital fits into that. ok and so i guess he didnt get a scholarship but got recruited, for football. is it true that if a guy and gal are in the same room the door has to be open? not trying to instigate here, just learn :)
  • KateLewisKateLewis Posts: 606Registered User Member
    Yes, that's true at all the academies. Very strict limits on fraternization.
  • taffytaffy Posts: 2,356- Senior Member
    the family friend just got promoted to Captain. how does pay work after you graduate westpoint? from the looks of bls.gov, he should be making $3,888 a month, which seems like pretty good money. does that all go into his pocket or how does that work? im guessing his housing and food and all that is already paid for by the army?
  • snipanlolsnipanlol Posts: 538Registered User Member
    It is quite simple.

    Yes, there is hazing. It exists in all armies around the world, and it is a punishment for not obeying orders. However, if the commander ordering the hazing is a leader worth his salt he himself will voluntarily suffer the same, and worse, as his unit. Otherwise he should not be in command.

    And you don't do military service for the pay. You do it for the friends and for your country. Trust me, no one will be as good a friend as the one you spend ten days in an observation trench with.
  • momoftwinsmomoftwins Posts: 2,668Registered User Senior Member
    I spoke with a colleague whose daughter is a sophomore at WP. I am especially curious about the hazing issue and don't expect to get a complete picture from the "official" answers. He told me she has not experienced any inappropriate hazing - or sexual harassment.
  • aspenaspen Posts: 748Registered User Member
    Taffy: Thanks for the article link. It looks like all the academies have an ungoing problem that needs constant vigilance and strong leadership.
  • tbby2tbby2 Posts: 261Registered User Junior Member
    After the whole AFA Rape thing, the academies have been cracking down more than ever. At BCT, if an upper-classmen orders a plebe to do an exercise (in order to restrict ridiculous demands) the upper classmen must do it which the person he ordered it. However, speaking to the current cadets, many of the upper classmen find many ways to get around it, and it is true that the administration does little to stop it.

    However

    Hazing in HS locker rooms is one thing, but hazing at WP or any of the academies are a little different in my opinion.

    the current cadets, and graduates explained to me. The hazing that they under went defind them as a person. because it made them a stronger individual. Most (not all) cadets 'haze' each other not for entertainment, but because they went through the same things themseleves, and it makes the experience of WP that much more rewarding. It also forms a sense of bonding between classmates. "what fails to kill you will only make you stronger"

    I do not condone hazing, however I could see how the cadets at the academies justify thier actions.
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