The Comm. and Hazing - Page 3

HNeedle · 09-07-2008, 05:48 PM

getting dropped in the hallways? haha, happens every day here at usafa. where we got beat for most of beast actually, in our hallways.

USNA69 · 09-07-2008, 06:58 PM

Don'ty feel special HNeedle. It happens at all the SAs.

HulkHogan · 09-12-2008, 05:26 PM

i've heard of west point being a piece of cake these days. Sure the classes are more rigorious and demanding then most college institutions, but compared to a real military college like VMI who still tries to uphold its traditional foundation in creating good and obedient officers in the future, WP is a joke to prepare you for what military life could be like.

JustAMomOf4 · 09-12-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

WP is a joke to prepare you for what military life could be like.

Oh my, that was profound.

HulkHogan · 09-13-2008, 02:07 AM

^ Slight exaggeration but nonetheless not to far from the truth from what I've heard and experienced. Although West Point brings out the brightest officers, I feel like some of these young men and women would crumble under pressure from a fire fight in Iraq or any other place. WP doesn't even strain for crying outloud. Beautiful institution and history though.

ScreamingEagle · 09-13-2008, 06:05 AM

wow, in my experience, WP prepares officers just fine for firefights, IED detonations, massive head trauma, bi-lateral amputations, government development, route security, raids, ambushes, information operations, logistics, intelligence, and whatever else is asked of its graduates. But you know what else? so does an ROTC program like BC or Texas, which contains no real military experience besides their MS classes. What WP offers that other schools do not is a complete immerision in an environment designed to build ethics and character. You mention VMI, which is another great school with a great history, yet the VMI cadets I interracted with while a cadet expressed utter disgust that the First Captain at West Point was a female. Generalizations are a poor thing to get into the habit of forming, so before I go and make the assumption based on my limited interaction with VMI cadets that that school is living 20 years in the past, you might want to look into your own prejudice and bias and realize that yelling, bracing, and hazing are not the only means to make and officer.

USNA69 · 09-13-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HulkHogan

compared to a real military college like VMI

Envy (and/or ignorance) is an amazing thing. I wonder how many people attend WP solely due to the reason that they were unable to gain admission to VMI. Kinda like people flunking out of their history major and being forced to enroll in the engineering school.

ScreamingEagle, good point. At one time, due to their archaic prejudices, there was a move afoot not to allow VMI grads to be commissioned in the US Navy.

keydet · 09-13-2008, 07:47 AM

Good post Screaming Eagle: USMA truly produces outstanding officers and will continue to do so long into the future. It's too bad that there are relatively unprofessional postings from all sorts of "experts" out there from all kinds of backgrounds whether they are from VMI or even graduates from Navy 39 years ago who seem to mostly revel in knocking fine schools pretty much because they are either unschooled, ignorant, incapable of appreciating that there are different ways to achieve an end, or because they were drinking the night before.
Keep your head down while you are in the SandBox. Hooah!

mom3boys · 09-13-2008, 08:07 AM

Good posts Screaming Eagle and USNA69. Sounds like just another case of sour grapes....

shogun · 09-13-2008, 09:16 AM

I haven't had that good of a laugh in weeks----

HulkHogan · 09-13-2008, 01:02 PM

I think some of you guys fail to realize the true meaning of my post and how it's not directed as a bashing or biased opinion. I never attended VMI or WP, or tried to get into those schools. This information is provided by kids who went to VMI that I know, and from kids who go to WP. Everyone at VMI will tell you that they would go to WP in a heartbeat if they had the opportunities. I was simply stating the facts on each, not saying that WP doesn't build great soldiers, but it has become an institution where nepitism and profound grades and recommendations get you in, rather than leadership skills hence why I stated VMI. For all those that are quick to defend, I have a feeling that you are so "gung ho" in defending something that you have failed to comprehend the deterioration of it.

And VMI from my understanding frowns upon females not simply because they are females, but because athletically speaking, most, i repeat most, cannot match up to a man. This is furthermore caused the plebe year and "rats" days to be taken more lightly because who would want to watch a female getting screamed at and yelled at, and kicked right?

This is just my 2 cents, and you have the right to disagree all you want.

wpmom2011 · 09-13-2008, 01:20 PM

Isn't it wonderful that all Americans have a right to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are?

Hey, Hulk, I hope you never meet up with my 125 lb, 5'2" daughter who completed her Beast carrying the same 40-50 lb. ruck up and down the hills of NY alongside of her much larger male new cadet comrades. I would prefer her not to have to deal with one more backward-thinking male, especially one that disparages others' accomplishments based on heresay.

Why don't you go experience things for yourself and then come back and share your thoughts? You might have more credibility.

p.s. Just because you say they're facts, doesn't make them facts.

keydet · 09-13-2008, 01:53 PM

Hulk- 3rd hand information is usually pretty lame information and you are the recipient of 3rd or 4th hand information. VMI doesn't "look down" on females anymore than West Point "looks down" on females. Perhaps some individuals at either place have different opinions- but institutionally you are dead wrong. Further, you don't really have a clue about the Rat line or the 4th class system at either USMA or VMI. For example, while VMI still practices an adversative 4th class system compared to USMA, absolutely it is also true that VMI's rat line is less physical today than it was 35 years ago- but my observation is that it is far more controlled and purposeful today than it was then. So has the deemphasis on fairly relentless degradation and physical abuse as practiced back in the "old corps" produced a lower quality of grad and officer? Not from what I can tell- in fact the contrary. So your theory basically doesn't hold a heck of a lot of water from my perspective. Finally- whatever your opinions on women at VMI - USMA or anywhere else- they are there because it is the law, because it is their right to be there and because the Army benefits from their being there. The arguments of 1995 at VMI died a long time ago and only a true outsider even raises them anymore. Further- I don't know what cadets you are talking to - but I know plenty of cadets and grads who are attending their first choice of college and would kick you down a steep hill for presuming to spew that they would all go to USMA if they had the chance. So- speak for yourself not for others (like me for example who you apparently presume to speak for); and perhaps you might speak from personal experience not from thoughts picked up over a beer. To be blunt-it seems to me that you don't know what you are talking about.

WAMom68 · 09-13-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

I was simply stating the facts on each, not saying that WP doesn't build great soldiers, but it has become an institution where nepitism and profound grades and recommendations get you in, rather than leadership skills hence why I stated VMI.

Hulk,
I don't know where you get this information but it is not accurate. My son is the first in our family, on either side, to attend West Point. Also, there are many of his classmates that are the first in their families to attend. So no nepotism in our case. Yes it helps if one of your parents or grandparents attended, but I bet that is the same for many top colleges including VMI.

Hmmmmm...don't you need excellent grades and recommendations to get into Harvard, Yale, etc? Seems to me there is nothing wrong with West Point requiring these too.

You are entitled to your opinion but you might want to get some facts before you post that opinion as a fact.

mom3boys · 09-13-2008, 04:49 PM

Hulk,
I really hate responding to you, as ignorance usually deserves no response. However, you might not be aware that West Point looks for the "total package." What do you consider profound grades? I know of several cadets whose GPA's range from 3.0-3.6--do you consider that "profound"? Are there cadets at WP with higher GPA's? Absolutely...but there are some who have average grades. Were they amazing leaders? Maybe, maybe not; perhaps team captains or Eagle scouts...what you need to realize is that WP is looking for a good mix of well-rounded students. Some are the very top at their schools, others are not. The information you are promulgating is just not accurate. You really should just not speak of things you do not know.

"Even a fool is thought to be wise when his mouth is shut."