Move Over HYP. West Point Is #1. - Page 4

Sezon · 08-07-2009, 10:14 PM

No one needs to be aware of the "formula"/methodology for the rankings to know that it was only formed for the tag-line of an Ivy League university no longer being the #1 university in America.

Mezzo'sMama · 08-07-2009, 11:31 PM

One thing to say- WHO CARES?!!

square-kay-PA · 08-08-2009, 01:25 AM

"They based 25% of the rankings on 4 million student evaluations of courses and instructors, as recorded on the Web site RateMyProfessors.com."

...really...?

HAHAHAHA... nice try forbes. better revise that methodology. tho i must say that anyone who ranks princeton 2, harvard 5 and yale 9 must be right

ScottZ1980 · 08-08-2009, 04:08 AM

Wow this methodology is something else...

50% of the score based on online student opinions (ratemyprofessors.com) and success determined by a biography in a “who’s who” book? Really?

15% based on number of Students or Faculty (of course, for west point to succeed on this metric it has to be an adjusted figure) who won nationally competitive awards like Rhodes Scholarships or Nobel Prizes.

And checking the Rhodes Trust website you come to this--

“We hesitate to publish this due to the ease in which these statistics are misused and misinterpreted, but we do so as lists like this are now widely available but frequently inaccurate.

Please keep in mind though that the Rhodes Scholarship competition has never been a national one, so state and institutional comparisons are not particularly relevant or meaningful.”

Judging by the tone of the article it appears that greater influence was placed on these rankings due to financial incentives or outcomes. Not surprising since after all this is Forbes. Look at what the military academy offers- No tuition, free room and board, paid medical and dental costs, and a $895 a month stipend? Obviously West Point is very attractive in this light. What the formula leaves out though is that eight year labor contract you must sign to enjoy those benefits. Given the financially bad times fallen upon many, this article, its tone, and its conclusion isn’t a surprise. However, when you assign the label “Best” to something, I would have expected more than a result where 50% of the score was based on online student opinions and success determined by a biography in a “who’s who” book.

Finally, I leave you with this quote from West Point’s Director of Terrorism on just how they were able to succeed to the top-

"If you really look at Brown University or Boston College or Stanford, their number one mission is likely not to teach. It's to bring research dollars to the campus … to write the next book that will get them on CNN," James Forest, West Point director of terrorism, told Forbes. "Pressure to be that kind of new academic star isn't there (at West Point)."

Dathan · 08-08-2009, 09:00 AM

I don't understand why Duke isn't even top 100.

In U.S News & W.R it is 7
In THES rankings of the world it is 12
In WSJ it is 4

What is the criteria for Forbes' ranking?

JustAMomOf4 · 08-08-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Look at what the military academy offers- No tuition, free room and board, paid medical and dental costs, and a $895 a month stipend?

Ahem - Most of the $895 stipend is used in paying for uniforms, books, mandatory fees for mandatory fun. Plebes got $175/month last year, take home.
It's not a "stipend", it's a salary. Fully taxable.

brendanww · 08-08-2009, 10:17 AM

Someone reported that West Point had the 4th most Rhode Scholars and was ahead of schools such as Stanford. This is not true. According to the Rhodes Scholars website, Stanford has yielded more Rhodes Scholars - http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/...te_7_30_09.pdf

Here are the qualities that are looked for in scholarship applicants:

* literary and scholastic attainments;
* energy to use one's talents to the full, as exemplified by fondness for and success in sports;
* truth, courage, devotion to duty, sympathy for and protection of the weak, kindliness, unselfishness and fellowship;
* moral force of character and instincts to lead, and to take an interest in one's fellow beings.

Earlier in the thread someone replied to a troll about higher up officers in the military not being responsible for the abuses that take place in other countries. Just because military courts don't hold the higher-ups responsible as the result of a corrupt system, it does not mean that they are indeed not responsible. I highly recommend you watch the documentary Taxi to the Darkside if you are in doubt of this. It is the soldiers recruited from poor neighborhoods, with lower ranking that, in my opinion, deserve the most respect, but giving absolute respect is mindless patriotism.

Sorry, that was off-topic, but nationalistic statements are one of my pet peeves.

amdn · 08-08-2009, 10:37 AM

why arent u guys happy?
kalamazoo college has moved up to #52
The only problem I can find with this list is that
Slippery Rock U is NOT in the top 25
What's wrong with these people?!

u§ername · 08-08-2009, 11:22 AM

I know right! and omg ITT tech should be in top 10... look at how many successful people they have on TV!

JustAMomOf4 · 08-08-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Someone reported that West Point had the 4th most Rhode Scholars and was ahead of schools such as Stanford. This is not true. According to the Rhodes Scholars website, Stanford has yielded more Rhodes Scholars - http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/...te_7_30_09.pdf

funny 'cause when I clicked on this link it told me that Stanford has 82 Rhodes Scholars compared to 85 at The United States Military Academy at West Point.
85>82

ScottZ1980 · 08-08-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

funny 'cause when I clicked on this link it told me that Stanford has 82 Rhodes Scholars compared to 85 at The United States Military Academy at West Point.
85>82

A nice solid 4th place for sure. But for WP to succeed on this metric there had to be some heavy adjusting to overcome the vast difference between the top 3 and 4th places.

Harvard- 323
Yale- 217
Princeton- 192
West Point- 85

cs12345 · 08-08-2009, 04:17 PM

i like how people are criticizing the methodology of forbes because their school isn't in the top ten.

manyman234 · 08-08-2009, 04:28 PM

This logic in the ranking is so ridiculously flawed.

The rankings on ratemyprofessors.com is skewed towards schools who's students are incredibly single minded and/or get easy A's at a preppy LAC because they're paying 40,000 extra to be babied. This kills the chances of any public schools being where they should be, because they only weight the average college debt "of people who borrow", and the only people who borrow at an in state university are those severely under budget and unable to pay nearly anything. However, people who borrow the same amount at a private LAC are able to pay alot, but just not quite the 50k.

A 10,000 dollar loan from a student who has to pay 15k to go to school is a lot worse than a 10,000 dollar loan from a student who has has to pay 50k and can pay the first 40 fine.

Also, the rankings on ratemyprofessor will destroy any engineering school, because why? Because they are HARD, and don't let slackers slide through the system. So students who are pampered and go through easy (and as it looks) conservative schools will rate their teachers higher. Just look at the great engineering schools

Cornell: 121
Carnegie Mellon: 266
Georgia Tech: 420 (----> ***?)

Lastly, let's guess what the majority of the people in the who's who are from? Business schools, and LAC's that are looking to get connections and go to professional schools. How many famous chemical engineers will you find in Who's who? Mechanical engineers?

Not many, because I'm pretty sure being a good academic institution and having famous graduates go very well together. As well as being a good academic institution while at the same time coaxing your students to love you enough to give you all good ratings on ratemyprofessors.com

Last large point, 4 year graduation rates? Who ever uses those in a statistical analysis. Students going for COOP's, double majors, and many engineering students graduate in 4.5-5.5 years. Hence why any real merit worthy system uses 6 year graduation rates. The point of college is not to zip through and get out of the system. The only reason to do that would be for someone going for professional school? (There we go, LAC students).

Take a look at GT's

Graduation Rate Within 4 Years 33.1%
Graduation Rate Within 5 Years 69.3%
Graduation Rate Within 6 Years 77.6%

Kindof a startling difference huh?

So in closing, this ranking is skewed towards, Free institutions where NOWONE has to pay, Liberal Arts Colleges and liberal arts based universities, and for some reason, incredibly conservative colleges(maybe the mindset of students?).

Bob Jones University, the biggest joke in NC is ranked far ahead of the 4th best engineering school in the US......

Look through the top 200 or so and look at the distribution of public schools and engineering schools, kindof startling.

manyman234 · 08-08-2009, 04:34 PM

Haha, look at Centre Colleges website, they are eating it up with this new ranking!

Feral24 · 08-08-2009, 04:44 PM

i dont think anyone should be disappointed to see that west point and many top LACs are ranked high. I DO think everyone should be disappointed at forbes using ratemyprofessor.com as their most influential factor of their methodology, as well as many fine institutions at the bottom of their list.