kb09026

Has anyone been looking into these? I'm really interested in ESG and Concourse, as the idea of small class sizes are really appealing to me. I was wondering if anyone could explain the difference between ESG and Concourse (based on their respective websites, they seem pretty similar), and the pros/cons of doing Freshman Learning Communities in general.

molliebatmit

You could PM mootmom, if she doesn't see this post -- her son was in ESG.

I wasn't in a freshman learning community, but it seemed to me that the smaller classes allowed for more one-on-one interaction with professors and more personalized learning (not to mention more free food ). The con, I suppose, is that after a freshman year in ESG or Concourse, a student has to move back to mainstream classes, which are neither as small nor as personalized. But my friends who did ESG and Concourse liked them very much -- if you're even slightly interested, you should check them out during CPW or orientation, as they'll have presentations which will answer all of your questions.

There was a thread on this last year (here) with opinions from several students, alums, and parents.

kb09026

thanks, mollie. I'm sure the free food is always a big plus Do you know if it's possible to do one of the learning communities and an advising seminar?

Star*

Both ESG and Concourse are awesome programs. Basically, what Mollie said.

I think the main difference between ESG and Concourse, to make a gross generalization, is that ESG has a more "east campus" feel, while Concourse is more "west campus". Not that you should choose one over the other based on your living group, but that's just the feeling I get from knowing people in both programs. But you should check them both out during orientation, and choose based on where you, personally, feel more comfortable.

Also, I think Concourse classes are a little bigger (maybe ~20 people), whereas ESG is even smaller than that (you might have a class with 5 or 6 people). And the classes you can take in each one vary slightly (the HASS classes are different, Concourse only has 3.091 and no 18.01...).

And it is possible to do an advising seminar plus a learning community. (I'm sure about that in ESG, and 99% sure in Concourse...).

molliebatmit

I was thinking for some reason that ESG advising seminars were integrated within ESG itself. Can anybody fact-check that?

Star*

There are advising seminars within ESG (which I think non-ESG people can also do, although I'm not sure), but if there's a seminar outside of ESG you want to take, that's cool too. All it means is that you get two advisors; the one that runs your seminar and an ESG one.

The rule is you can take as many classes as you want within ESG, the only limit is that at least 2 classes be ESG (so you could take, for instance, 8.01 and 18.02 in ESG, and 5.111 and a HASS plus a seminar outside ESG). It's up to you. Note, in councourse at least 3 classes must be within concourse.

kb09026

On the website it said in ESG you have to take at least half of your classes in ESG; for Concourse it's 3 first semester and 2 second semester.

F.A.Q. — ESG: Experimental Study Group

Fun

What about the lecturers? Are they any better/worse more entertaining/less entertaining than mainstream lectures?

la montagne

My roommate is in ESG and absolutely LOVES it. Also, I know that she's in an advising seminar outside of ESG, so that's definitely possible. One of the main benefits of ESG as she saw it was that she got a really great physics professor (Dourmashkin) and NO TEAL. Also, she seems to really like all her professors. However, she opted to take 3.091 outside of ESG because she really wanted to have Sadoway. (She ended up hating going to lecture, and so instead watched all the lectures recorded online. But she really liked Sadoway! ) Also, in ESG you're much more likely to really get to know your professor/have them get to know you, so that might make them seem more amusing/cooler.

Anyway, to summarize, everyone I know in Concourse/ESG really likes it. If you think it's for you, then definitely go to info sessions during orientation/CPW (if there are any? I'm not sure about this). =]

burnitblue

Is this a possible schedule for ESG?

18.01A regular (with Mattuck)
3.091 regular
8.01 ESG
HASS ESG

wildchartermage

is Concourse good for ppl who might struggle following along in a large lecture hall, is not that fast to pick up information, and just somebody who wants bit more one on one lessons-ish/small group of ppl?

I'm used to having small classes where I know everybody and teachers knowning me and at least tried to help to accomadate me. I"m just..pretty afraid that I"ll fall behind academically because i can't get anything or that there isn't anyone willing to tutor/help me with concepts yet remain patient with me and my disability.

wildchartermage

and I don't want to drop out of or pHail MIT because of those above reasons.

Rainalai

One of my roommates took Concourse last semester (8.01, 9.00 - into to psychology, 3.091 which is a combination of mainstream 3.091 and 5.111/5.112, and mainstream 18.03), and she had a very different opinion of Concourse, enough to make her go completely mainstream this semester.

She didn't enjoy 8.01 at all, because the professor apparently went on tangents, overcomplicated the material, and towards the end of the semester, she was learning stuff that I had never seen from mainstream 8.01t. She thought she would have done better if she had gone done 8.01 teal instead. She's in 8.011 now (spring class for people who failed 8.01 first semester), and she loves it because the concepts are so much clearer.

The story was the same for concourse 3.091 - she disliked the mix of solid-state and solution chemistry, and she thought she would have been better prepared for 5.12 this semester if she had taken 5.111/5.112 instead. She did enjoy 9.00 though, it was with Wolfe, an awesome MIT professor known for teaching intro psych.

Of course, that's just her opinion, and I know some people who also loved concourse because it was a small learning environment, and people became really close friends through the program. Really do talk to upperclassmen before you decide though.

intelligentimp

@star- thanks for the referral.
question: "(the HASS classes are different, Concourse only has 3.091 and no 18.01...)."
but if you can take classes outside of Concourse and ESG, then it dosen't matter what concourse only offers, you can take something non-concourse if you wanted to. or am I misunderstanding this?

PiperXP

I believe Concourse requires you to take 3 classes with them first term (ESG requires 2). So if you can't find 3 that fit you...

intelligentimp

how many classes do people usually take during a semester?
on a side note: If I haven't turned in my fasip app yet, should I be worried? Does fasip fill up really quickly?