Good schools for vocal performance. - Page 4

2Bornot2B67 · 03-15-2009, 07:00 PM

My daughter has been accepted to a few schools recently for vocal performance. I am DESPERATE for information! She her largest scholarship so far is for UMICH. I feel like there is quite a lot of info on their MT dept which they are so well known for. However, I dont know enough about them for vocal performance. Would you consider them a top school? What about in comparison to OCU or Baldwin Wallace for VP? Thanks!

OperaDad · 03-15-2009, 07:22 PM

Ann Arbor is well respected for voice. My son visited, but decided not to apply. I don't know anything about OCU or Baldwin, so I'm guessing that Ann Arbor is better.

BassDad · 03-15-2009, 07:58 PM

2Bornot2B67,

I have taken the liberty of adding your daughters U Michigan acceptance to the list on this year's acceptance thread. If you will confirm that her other acceptances were indeed OCU and Baldwin Wallace, I will add them as well. I also take it that OCU = Oklahoma City University?

I occasionally have the pleasure of singing with an alumna of the U Michigan undergrad vocal performance program who did her Master's at Juilliard. She is quite good and has performed with some well-known major opera companies. If she is any indication, the program there is very good.

KeyofH · 03-15-2009, 08:09 PM

2Bornot2B67: We were very gungho on U. of Michigan until we visited there, attended three masters classes ( heard maybe a total of 15 vocal students performing) but didn't hear anyone who could really sing. The facilities are absolutely superb, the town is great, the school is beautiful; the faculty friendly. So, it broke our hearts to take Michigan off the list. My suggestion -- take another trip back and see if your son or daughter has a different or similar experience.

lorelei2702 · 03-15-2009, 08:29 PM

UMichigan has a highly esteemed music school. It is surprising that 15 weak students would have been allowed to sing for potential students. Master classes are studio classes, and some of what happens there are works in progress...not considered finished products. Do you know if the students who sang were undergraduates, graduates, performance majors, education majors, etc.? Did your daughter have a trial lesson with someone there? Good luck to her in finding the right fit.

2Bornot2B67 · 03-15-2009, 09:02 PM

Bassdad- Yes, She has been accepted for vocal performance to Oklahoma City University, Baldwin Wallace, and UMICH. She only applied for VP to schools where she applied for MT as well.
KeyofH- Hmmm. You have definately given me something to think about. We LOVED the school and the faculty. My D did NOT however have a chance to observe any classes. That might be something worth doing if we can afford another visit. When we were there, Jessie Norman was giving a master class to some students. We met her but didnt see the class.
Does anyone know if you can double major in VP and MT at UMICH or is that not an option?
Please keep all of the feedback coming! We are desperate to make an informed decision! THANKS TO YOU ALL!

KeyofH · 03-15-2009, 10:08 PM

Hello Lorelei 2702 and 2Bornot 2B67 -- Lorelei2702, it wasn't a question of the students being allowed to sing for potential students -- we were "interlopers." who happened to be there to audit regularly scheduled classes. Except for a doctoral student (who did magnificently), all the students we heard were undergrads and none were exceptional. We assumed they were all vocal performance majors, but I have no evidence and that's a valid point, except that most schools like to say that their performance majors and Music Ed majors are equally talented. The masters classes that we attended were for three different professors. Yes my daughter had practice lessons and yes, she probably could have found a professor there that she could have worked with. But here's the thing -- at other schools, she had ah-ha moments where within 10 or 15 minutes some of the prof's were able to elicit great voice qualilty that we hadn't yet heard. Those moments did not occur at Michigan unfortunately, even with the breath-takingly beautiful studios, the exquisite landscaping, kudos from the very charming professors, the wondrous gamelin and various other exotic museum pieces scattered throughout the school.

My daughter filled out all the applications, wrote all the essays; prepared all of the other materials (truely the most elaborate application of those that she completed ) and then she decided not to apply. A big disappointment for both of us -- we had thought this would be the dream school.

With regard to your question, 2Bornot2b67 about double majoring in VP and MT -- I don't know, but U of Michigan certainly seemed to have a much more relaxed attitude about mixing classical voice and MT singing. At other schools it seemed to be forbidden. As a matter of fact at McGill, she was warned against even participating in chorus classes and musical theater was just out of the question. In Classical Singer a few months ago there was an article about Sylvia McNair who "crossed over" from classical to musical theater. So I think (and by no means am I an expert), but I'm perceiving that the mixture of classical singing and MT belting is something that some people who know more than I do would be careful about.

lorelei2702 · 03-16-2009, 07:25 AM

KeyoH: sorry you had such a negative experience at UMich, cannot defend what I did not hear. However, other points about the things you reacted to:

(1) Most schools DO have a different standard for vocal performance vs music education, however, there is no telling how a 17-18 year old will evolve.....usually there is a sophomore barrier exam which will determine whether a person has met the standard for vocal performance;

(2) A doctoral level singer should be a fairly finished product, though not necessarily a major vocal talent, it is an academic degree not a performance contract;

(3) "ah-ha moments where within 10 or 15 minutes some of the prof's were able to elicit great voice quality that we hadn't yet heard" is not a dependable predictor of good voice teaching...it is a quick fix which may or may not be a technique which is appropriate for the singer.....beware.

The main thing is that your daughter has confidence in her school, which is not the case for her or you at UMich. Good luck to her.

VicAria · 03-16-2009, 08:09 AM

We toured Oklahoma City University in April 2008. My only caveat is that you have to be CERTAIN you're the right kind of personality. My daughter most emphatically was not. (When the tour led off with the wall of OCU beauty queens, she and I -- cynical, feminist NorthEasterners -- roared with laughter, politely, into our fists.) But if you understand that overarching ethic there, I would recommend OCU highly. We were extremely impressed with the level of personal attention a student would get there, and the lessons we sat in on, we both felt the instruction was perfect for helping young singers find their way. We snuck into an opera-in-rehearsal, and the perofrmances were simply stunning. It's also a fairly small campus, with nice facilities ... obviously much smaller than Ann Arbor would be. I was so impressed with the track record of the MT department, and their NYC outreach/networking programs. You're putting yourself at absolutely no disadvantage getting your MT training out there. And I believe they have a policy of ALL students, VP or MT, have to audition for ALL productions. We also sightseed around Oklahoma City, and we really liked the vibe there.

piglet20 · 03-16-2009, 02:43 PM

Hi 2B,

I posted this in another forum in reply, just wanted to xpost in case you missed it!

In my experience, Baldwin-Wallace and OCU are great for musical theatre, but only so-so for classical voice. Both focus primarily on musical theatre. I go to a conservatory in New York, and I haven't known any classical singers of note to come out of their programs. However, I have known many VERY successful classical singers to come out of the Michigan undergrad program. If your D has been accepted there with scholarship, I would say, take it! That's a much, much, much better place to be for classical voice/opera. I would give different advice if she was planning on doing musical theatre. If she is unsure whether she wants to do MT or classical/opera, I would still say Michigan is the better option, because the programs are more equally weighted there, rather than skewed towards musical theatre.

funfun · 03-16-2009, 05:26 PM

I had heard that they were good. What is the down side?

funfun · 03-16-2009, 05:27 PM

Chapman University reportedly has a top music program. It's close to L.A. with lots of performance opportunities.

funfun · 03-16-2009, 05:28 PM

I've heard some really bad things about U of M's music program. Has anyone here had any good experiences, there?

KeyofH · 03-16-2009, 06:08 PM

funfun -- are you talking music program or voice program? Look at what Lorelei2702 has to say (a few entries above) and there have been other entries on cc indicating that some vp majors had a great deal of success.

KeyofH · 03-16-2009, 10:37 PM

A few days ago I saw on the Music Major Site a Listing of Top Voice Performance Schools. But I can't seem to find it again. Actually it was two listings -- the first list included the 10 (I believe) most selective or best schools (including Northwestern, Michigan, Rice, Westminster?, etc) and then there was a second category. Can anybody help me find that listing again? I would be very grateful. Thank you.