binx

By the grace of God, we accidentally did most things right. Not anything we can take credit for, since we were flying by the seat of our pants. I know S would have taken fewer APs and dropped some extraneous music programs earlier to free up his schedule. But that's only in hindsight - at the time, he did what we thought he needed to be doing.

Junior year we should have been a bit more scheduled about contacting teachers. As it was, it didn't work out to meet some of the teachers we wanted to. Some of our college visits were almost impulsive-seeming - by the time we organized everybody's schedules, we didn't have much forewarning for teachers, and they weren't available. The teacher he ended up with is one of those he didn't meet in advance. Has worked out better than anyone could have known, though.

Also found out the hard way that summer programs often require applications by January or February - or even in the fall! Ended up with a couple of second or third choices along the way because of missing deadlines.

binx

Cross posted above with FlutemomLiz, so I'll adress her teacher question, too.

My S had a great horn teacher, but changed piano teachers a couple times. Once, the teacher just became unreliable. Once, the teacher moved. But the final switch came at my insistence. My S was quite put out with me because he really liked the guy. But I noticed that, where my S used to LOVE piano, he had become quite humble, acknowledging that he wasn't very good, refusing to play for folks, etc. His teacher was quite negative. S got very little praise, and a lot of criticism. S believed what teacher told him and took it to heart. Teacher wasn't interested in S's compositions - mildly tolerant, but critical of everything S produced. Teacher chose other kids for master classes. Ridiculed S's chances at colleges.

I also noticed that the teacher was trying to change S's style. Wanted him to sit still when he played, where S is a mover. Wasn't open to different interpretations. Was extremely protective of his piano - unreasonable for a student playing at this level. (Things like, did you wash your hands? If I let you play my grand, will you be careful?)

I saw and heard all this as I sat outside the lesson room. Perhaps because I am also a pianist, and knew what my kid could do, it colored my opinion. I put up with it for a couple years. Finally, I pulled him out against his will without having a new teacher to go to. (Which was necessary, because the teacher's group here will not allow one teacher to take a student who is a current student of another teacher.) Then I began calling teachers -- I called probably half a dozen before finding the right match. She was extremely well regarded, taught theory at a local Univ., has published her own compositions, has a wicked sense of humor, and absolutely loves my S and is one of his biggest cheerleaders. She was able to teach him a ton of theory, made jokes about the fact that horn and composition were higher priorities than piano, and championed his applications to top schools.

One of the few times in my life that S has admitted after the fact that I was right!

Progress, personality, and reputation are all things to be considered. I also personally believe in most cases that changing teachers, or having supplemental teachers (camps, etc) can be healthy.

orchestramom

FluteMomLiz
We were lucky that my daughter had a very good teacher wiith a philosophy of helping her students be the best they could be, and a keen sense of when it might be right to move on -- AND no particular ego issues bound up in all of that. Fiddlekid had been with her teacher for 7 years or so, and in her freshman year, when she began circling tentatively around the idea of becoming more serious about music, her teacher first tossed out the idea of changing teachers "in a year or so." She thought it would be good training for D to work with a different teaching style and felt that she should have at least two years with a new teacher before college/audition process. We deferred the idea for a year, and revisited it last spring. By that time, her (then) teacher had identified a couple of possibilities, and my D had experienced a master class with the teacher who would become her new teacher (though she didn't know it at that point).

D's new teacher is also an active performer as well as teacher, and her previous teacher felt this would be a valuable additional perspective. D auditioned for the new teacher's studio, was accepted, and her playing has grown by leaps and bounds, just in these first six months. Her new teacher has incredibly high expectations. D is putting in more practice time, working at a higher level and an accelerated pace, and she loves it.

RainMom

FluteMomLiz -- For us, a decent safety would have been a place where D could have gotten a full-ride (actual offer) and where there is a teacher who consistently produces students who have gotten professional jobs right out of the studio, or who have gone onto placement in major graduate schools. This is not at all the same experience as going to a major conservatory or a major music school, but it is a way to get where one is going if the other doesn't work out. Also, if the difficulty is auditioning into a major studio because one has not had more advanced training, a year or two of "free" training in college (I'm assuming full-ride, which can be the case in these situations), while working through graduation requirements for "free," (especially if a university degree is also desired) can get someone ready to audition into a dream studio.

This seems to be especially important when need-based financial aid is a large factor. Not all schools practice need-blind admission. That can mean that a studio has a certain amount of money to "spend" toward new students in a year, and if your student is "too expensive" in terms of what they can get for a studio, they will choose someone else. Also, some schools will admit a student with high financial need, but will give mostly loans for aid, or not even come close to helping meet EFC by any means, making the admission theoretical for some families. (This can happen especially at out-of-state state schools which do not claim to meet full need for out-of-state students. The top applicant or two alone might be awarded significant merit aid, and no one else, and need-based aid is often given in terms of loans which might not come close to EFC even at that.) It can be helpful to research the admissions and financial aid policies of the places D applies if this is your situation. I wish we had taken the opportunity to do that before auditions.

Because financial circumstance is so much a part of our family's reality (S is severely disabled and takes most family resources), D tried very hard to keep an open mind about her situation and then weigh the realities of admission and financial reality to find the best balance. I'm very proud of her for not making her mind up before we got in all of the data, as that helped her be more able to let go of the ones that didn't work out, and to sift through the realities of her situation along with the dreams she had for what was theoretically "ideal." And it all worked out with a very fitting studio and financial aid that makes the circumstance practical. But, I still think that given our actual situation in real life, I didn't understand what a "safety" was in our case, or how much it would have helped to have had her apply to one, just to keep THAT particular option open as well. Your own mileage may vary, of course. This may only apply to our own rather idiosyncratic situation.

BassDad

Daughter would frequently go through phases where her playing would advance rapidly for a while then hit a plateau where she consolidated what had been learned before the next major advance. When the advances began to get farther apart and the plateaus longer, that was a sign.

When daughter first got interested in the possibility of being a performance major, she asked her current teacher about starting in on the required audition pieces. Being the no-nonsense type she is, she meant that she wanted to start right then at the current lesson. Her teacher said that he would have to work them up himself first. That was another sign.

When daughter would go to summer programs and workshops and come back talking about how great the teachers there were, that was still another sign.

When her school orchestra director called one day and told us she had the talent to go to a major conservatory and suggested that we find her a better teacher, that was a sign in flashing neon letters.

We found the new teacher through the summer program she attended before junior year. One of the main reasons we were attracted to that particular program was that it included a couple of private lessons with Hal Robinson, the principal bass of the Philadelphia orchestra and one of the best players, teachers, and all-around great guys in the business. He used those lessons to introduce daughter to a whole new technique of playing that she would never have explored with her then-current teacher. As it turned out, that technique was very well suited to her physical size (which is average) and took advantage of her natural agility and finesse rather than relying on size and strength. She asked Hal for additional private lessons over the months of July and August and he agreed. The progress she made that summer was phenomenal.

Due to his obligations with the orchestra and his teaching schedule at Curtis, Hal just did not have time for her once September rolled around. We spent a good hour after her last lesson talking about potential teachers and where she would go from there. He gave us the names of a couple of NY Philharmonic members but told us that, even if their schedules would permit a new student, they were not as likely to continue with some of the technique that he had introduced. Then he gave us a list of a few of his best students at Curtis and suggested that we contact them in the order listed.

The name at the top of the list was Joseph Conyers who was then starting his final year of college. Hal reasoned that someone who had auditioned so successfully a few years before would have some valuable insights to pass along. Apparently Hal had also spoken with Joseph about this because, when we called, he was quite enthusiastic about starting lessons. I sat in on the first lesson and came away convinced that this young man was going to be the right teacher for my daughter and that he would be making a name for himself. He is now the principal bass for the Grand Rapids orchestra and has been a finalist but not yet a winner in some very high-profile auditions for major city symphonies and opera orchestras. If anyone in Michigan is looking for the opportunity to catch a rising star for a teacher, he is on faculty at Grand Valley State University and Calvin College and probably accepts private students.

Joseph (with occasional input from Hal) was able to help daughter put together a short list of potential college teachers. Between the two of them, they were able to tell her a lot about what particular teachers were like and what they would be looking for in an audition. That was another thing that she could not have possibly gotten from her old teacher.

In order to find these kinds of teachers, you have to do some research and then be willing to make a few cold calls. If you live near a large city with a major symphony, try to contact some of the players in the section of interest. Take workshops and masterclasses with some of the best and don't be shy about speaking with them afterward. If daughter did not have the gumption to ask Hal for private lessons, we probably would have wound up with the best teacher in our area and she would likely be a math or physics major at a decent college with a pretty good orchestra. That would certainly not have been a disaster, but her life would certainly be much different than it is now.

thumper1

I know you're asking for what we would change...but one thing that we absolutely did that was right was have both of our kids take piano lessons with a GOOD teacher. DS, the performance major, says this was one thing that has helped him immensely with many aspects of his playing including transpositions, chords, keys, and theory. We also started tours in 10th grade where we heard that piano study was strongly recommended. Also DS took music theory classes each summer at his summer programs and then took the AP class in high school (no he didn't get credit...music majors have to take the course...but it prepared him well for college theory). AND both kids also sang...learned solfege at young ages. Again an edge...or at least that is what they have said.

rcmama

As far as the original question, I'm not so sure I'd change anything about the actual college search/application process. During D's sophomore year, it became very clear that she wanted to major in performance, hoping to get a job in a major orchestra, so we were able to start thinking about the process fairly early. We also seemed to stumble blindly into the right programs, often after D was rejected from some program we felt she would surely get into. These early rejections also seemed to suggest to us that "the right connections" (some would say "politics", perhaps?) can sometimes play a role in the whole process. Sometimes I wish I had been more vocal or pushy, but that would have driven D crazy! Those early rejections led to something better for her anyway.

One thing I wish we had done earlier was figure out how to make quality recordings. Husband and I (as well as D's teachers) are technologically backward, so this has been a struggle. Every music student will eventually need to know how to do this to apply to some of the top summer programs, etc. We gave D a minidisc recorder about a year ago and she has finally figured it out I think. Otherwise she has used recording studios, which has been rather costly and inconvenient to use. (Another thing I wasn't prepared for was the COST of everything - not just tuition, but the instruments, the summer programs, the extra lessons, etc.!!)

As far as changing teachers, we had been advised fairly early on that if D hoped to make this a career, it is very important to get the best possible teacher. D's first teacher (for about 2 1/2 years) was very young and very enthusiastic. She still totally believes in D and we were (and still are) very fond of her. She had never taught anyone like my D, who progressed rapidly, and made several remarks like "In a few years, she'll be better than me!" and "I hope I don't hold her back!" Also, D left several lessons feeling "I didn't get anything out of that lesson." D also left summer camp, having been told that she had enormous potential and needed to be studying with a principal player in a major orchestra. It was very difficult to decide to look for a new teacher, but when her teacher became pregnant and D needed a temporary replacement, we felt it was the opportune time to start looking. The last two high school years were spent with a teacher whose students go on to become performance majors and who is considered a very good teacher (his top students generally get accepted at the top schools).

-Allmusic-

My son has had four piano teachers in ten years, and some people think that is a lot, but it has worked out for him. Each time, it seemed auspicious that he needed a new teacher just as the situtation was somehow changing (first, young teacher, married and moved, etc). I have always found changing teachers much more stressful for me, than for him, since most of the ground work in seeking/calling/scheduling the new ones has fallen on me.

We did switch from one exceptionally well renowned teacher because her style did not match his at all...she drove him too hard, did not appreciate or nurture his other musical interests, or realize that they were every bit as much a part of him as the piano, and part of what made him unique and interesting. However, he also grew and advanced incredibly under her tutelage, so he stayed with her a full two years. Personality wise, it was a difficult match, because he could never be what she wanted, and her perceived disappointment was difficult for him to deal with (maybe more me than him, even).

His current teacher, who will take him through the audition process, may not be as highly regarded (although still a very fine teacher), but she completely understands this boy of mine, and has also gotten amazing music out of him.

So, my experience is that sometimes the "best" teachers are not the best for individual students. At least that is what we have found.

smsmom

D herself knew she needed to change teachers early in her sophomore year, and finally in early spring her high school (public school) band director said it was time for a change. I was orignally reluctant to change, because the first teacher seem to be such a nice person and had been so flexible when D was deciding between music and a sport. There were rather bitter feelings expressed when D quit. I should have helped D search for a new teacher when she first expressed concerns, but at that time I didn't realize how serious she was about music or maybe I was in denial.

FluteMomLiz

Rainmom looks like I have tons of research to do before I am get any idea about what schools might be financial safeties. I am realizing I am not very good at this. But I will put in the effort.

Yes as those that read my first post here know, financial concerns are a big part of our problem in deciding which schools to audition for and which to pass on.

shennie

The teacher thing is something that I see in retrospect, but was not nearly as clear when we were going through it. Son was doing well with his teacher. His teacher was an older grad student who had played professionally for a number of years before deciding to get a DMA. He worked quite a bit with my son, often going over on lessons without charging extra. (He stated that it was his decision to work the extra time, not ours, so he didn't feel the need to charge extra.) Son won a couple of local competitions his freshman year, much to our surprise, so we felt like he was doing well.

However, by the end of freshman year, he had been with this man for 4 years. It think that after 4 or 5 years, most students at any level have gotten what they can from a specific teacher and it is time to move on. I think this is particularly true for high level musicians. Many teachers son spends time with whether for summer or for an academic year, have usually given him new ideas on ways to approach his instrument and deal with technical problems. There has never been any one teacher that has been able to solve all of his issues. The teachers he has appreciated the most are the ones who recognize this and encourage him to study with others.

librarian377

I wish I had stood up to the guidance counselor at DS's high school sooner. S needed to lighten up his schedule senior year (drop math) and focus more on his auditions. The GC was a sweet man, but he knew NOTHING about conservatory admissions. Things improved when we just stopped listening to him and did what was good for DS.

musicmom

I second librarian377's stance.

We checked with some of son's non-conservatory choices and dropped math after we confirmed he had minimum for admittance.
He was thrilled since math was (and still is) his absolute most dreaded subject.

Thus we had a happier son with more time to practice.....priceless.

violadad

Just resurrecting an older post for reference and potential "add-ons".

euphgal

If I could go all the way back to fifth grade I would have chosen the trombone over the euphonium, especially seeing now how it is considered easier to get a pro orchestral trombone job, than it is to get a premier euphonium military job.

Gong back just a few years, I would probably have visited more campuses my junior year and met with the teachers. I also probaby shuld have just looked out of state too, seeing as how I never go home much as it is now, it wouldn't have been a problem to be out of state. And I would have looked at the music schools at bigger universities that I was too scared to look at before. Now I realize even if the university is big, the music school is usually a pretty small size. Also, I would have applied to more programs such as Johns Hopkins/Peabody and Eastman/Rochester to have more classes in the liberal arts.