binx

I like the list, thenosam. Only 7 schools - not so much for a performance major applying to tough schools. I am assuming from the list that he is a top notch player, and those are top schools. I don't know anything about Colburn. For a top player, I would expect BU and UNT to be a bit "safer" than the others (though no audition school can be truly safe).

You're right - no audition scholarships. Auditioning is expensive, especially if you are traveling with a big instrument - do double bass players have to take their own instruments? (I know, probably a stupid question. But I play piano, and nobody makes me bring my own. ) It is just one of those "swallow hard" situations - you do what you have to do.

CIM is pretty stingy with merit - they have a smaller endowment. Rice is generally listed on the "good value" lists, so I think they are pretty generous. (And closer to you - driving distance?) With several in school, unless you are independently wealthy, you should qualify for need-based aid. Except for CIM, I would expect most of those schools to offer full or partial need-based grants rather than loans. Of course, Curtis is free tuition. Apartment living in Philly can be expensive, but kids generally end up sharing, so it's manageable. Curtis will give need-based aid for living expenses for kids who qualify. The reality is that you just don't know till results come in in April (or sooner) what kind of financial aid you will get. How much need a school meets often depends on how bad they want you!

I notice no NYC schools on the list. Is he (or you) against NYC in general, or do they just not have the teachers he wants? The reason I ask is that the Curtis auditions are usually held on consecutive days with Juilliard, Manhattan, and (I think) Mannes. We took the train from Philly to NYC, and it was cheaper doing several auditions in one weekend than individual trips.

S2 didn't apply to any Boston schools, but there again, there may be consecutive auditions - I don't know. (Like with Boston Conservatory or NEC.) Only thinking this way to save money on travelling - certainly no bargain if he has no interest in attending!

None of us ever is! Success depends on talent, work ethic, and alignment of the stars.

Although there are no guarantees, there are ways to have a clue. Are his teachers suggesting these schools? Is he winning competitions or top chairs in student orchestras? Has he visited any of these teachers/schools and gotten positive feedback? Does he seem to be outgrowing community resources?

violadad

thenosam- as binx said, it seems a well rounded list. Curtis and Colburn are really "reaches" for almost anybody, including those at the top of the performance food chain, but the free tuition makes it worth it if he can audition competitively.

Sometimes being a big fish in a smaller pond can really work to your advantage financially for audition based merit aid. Depending upon exactly what he's looking for in a program and instructor, it might make sense to look at places like Oberlin, maybe even Hartt. BassDad's D is bass performance at Oberlin and he's the resident expert. I mention Hartt as Robert Black is the bass professor and from our experience with son (BM viola '07) they were generous with talent aid.

thumper1

>>no audition scholarships, right>>

If you mean...the child must audition for scholarships, yes you are correct.

Re: auditions at the schools...sadly even in the same town, the auditions may not be on the same weekend. DS auditioned at BU at the beginning of Feb and NEC at the end. Neither day was negotiable...they were the only days for auditions on DS's instrument.

But yes...the NYC schools do have their auditions on consecutive days.

SJTH

Thanks, Binx--we know this is a hole. He has a keyboard and dinks around with it a bit. Lessons would be a help, I know.

thenosam

My son has played in the state orchestra as a sophomore-6th chair, junior-3rd chair. He has played in GDYO (Dallas) as co-principle. He hopes/plans to do both of these as a senior. He is at Tanglewood right now. I don't really know how they do their seating. He was last chair for the first concert, now he is principle for the second concert, and the previous principle is last. ?? I will get to go to the final concert - I can't wait!! We really miss him.
He set up a lesson last fall with Paul Ellison at Rice. He was encouraging. He also set up a lesson with Jeff Bradetich at UNT. He won a h.s. solo opportunity at UNT's bass day concert, and later, a masterclass with Dr. Bradetich during bass camp. He has had masterclasses with symphony members in Boston and Chicago while on trips with his school orchestra. His private teacher plays in the Ft. Worth symphony. These have all been encouraging. While getting good feedback, I know these schools/conservatories are very hard to get into. But, maybe not too many audiitions??? He has been working hard and using the music required list for a year. He seems to know what he is doing. I am optimistic, but the money is a reality to consider. In the end, whatever is open to him, he/we will have to consider our comfort level with financial gap and debt. As long as he keeps working hard, I want to encourage him to attempt all auditions, not just play it safe with a few.
He referred all of his private students (while he is gone to Tanglewood) to a guy a few years older. He is a bass major on scholarship from Oberlin. I'm not sure why he doesn't talk much about Oberlin. Maybe he can talk to this guy when he gets back.
Binx, the information about CIM is helpful. It may not make a lot of sense for him to audition there, in his situation. I do wish all of the schools would go ahead and put the dates out. I teach school, so summer is the perfect time for me to look ahead at the crazy calendar and map out what, where, how...
I have found several ways to get free airline miles. We do plan to take his bass to auditions - as expensive as it is to consider a flight trunk (rent or whatever) and the big fees. He just recently hurt his hand playing for a day on a loaner bass because the strings were set up too high. I suppose it's not worth the factor of risk of a bad audition, sound, or injury.

BassDad

BU is not a safety for double bassists. In my estimation, it is among the top few double bass programs in the country along with Curtis and Rice. Ed Barker is superb and James Orleans, Todd Seeber and Larry Wolfe are all excellent teachers. Colburn offers full rides to all college students and is extremely competitive. UNT, CIM and Indiana are very popular choices for double bass students because all have excellent faculty on that instrument. Even if he is among the best of the current crop of high school bassists (as the principal position at Tanglewood would suggest) he should realize that there is not a single safety on that list. Some people prefer to operate in that way, figuring that if they cannot make it into one of the best schools then they should consider a different field or take a gap year and try again. If he is of the mind that he wants to study bass somewhere, even if it is not one of the top schools, then he should start looking for a couple of safeties, particularly if he needs a lot of aid and does not get into Curtis or Colburn.

The Tanglewood bass section rotates seating. The top three auditioners each get to sit principal for one concert, last chair for one concert and somewhere in the middle third for one concert. I believe the top auditioner usually gets the last concert as principal, so thenosam's son was likely second or third in the pecking order.

Bassists generally do wind up carting along their instrument for important auditions. There is no such thing as a "standard" bass. No two are really quite the same and even two very good ones can be quite different. The string length can vary a bit, the note that sounds at the point where the fingerboard joins the body is different on different instruments, some are set up with the strings higher off the fingerboard, fingerboard width can vary somewhat, some instruments have extensions to allow the instrument to play down to C rather than E, some instruments even have five strings instead of four. All this means that it can take a while for the musician to get used to a particular instrument and they will be at their best in an audition using the instrument on which they have been practicing.

My daughter is a double bass major at Oberlin, who will be starting her third year there in a month or so. If you have specific questions about the program there, I will be happy to pass them along. PM me if you like. Oberlin's policy is to meet 100% of demonstrated need and with several in school at once, you could qualify for a large amount of aid there. They are known for providing lots in scholarships and grants and relatively low amounts in loans.

thenosam

Whoa...!! I will PM you, BassDad. Good thoughts - thank you all!

team_mom

Thenosam,
I really hate to be the one to break it to you, but audition dates for colleges are not posted very far ahead. If you were hoping to put your plan together this summer, or even this fall...

Being a somewhat compulsive organizer, I found this very difficult to comprehend, but when my D was auditioning for college, only a very few schools gave significant notice (3 months or more.) I recall that Curtis posted dates mid January for February auditions.

Pam

Actually, many schools (including Oberlin and CIM) have their 2008 audition dates posted on their websites now. While you might not know which date you've been assigned until later, it's helpful to see the possibilites.

team_mom

You are right, Pam, I misspoke. You can usually find out the general range of audition dates for your instrument, but not necessarily which one will be yours.

thenosam

Mid-January for a February audition??? Seriously?

Well the good news - 2008 is a leap year!
Yea!! ONE EXTRA DAY in February. Lucky year!

binx

I went back and looked at emails from 2004 when my S auditioned. Juilliard sent S his audition date of Feb 29 on Jan 28th. Curtis had their date of Feb 28th on the website early, but they officially confirmed it/invited S on Jan 30. S got to pick CIM's date at the time of his application, but had to change it last minute when it turned out to be the same day as Juilliard's. We could have avoided that had we realized that the NYC/Curtis auditions are on the same weekend. Since I was flying from Germany to go with him, we had purposely chosen dates close to each other where possible. It backfired. He ended up going to CIM a week or two earlier, alone.

thumper1

When DS auditioned (for admittance fall 2003), we had all of his auditions scheduled by the end of October. Most of his schools only had one audition date for his instrument and it was clearly posted on the website. We didn't get confirmation of the time until closer to the day. His NEC audition was actually rescheduled (with his OK) to the following day due to an overabundance of students on his instrument. His was the LAST audition they heard. His Peabody audition was delayed two days due to the incredible snowstorm in DC that weekend. He did early priority auditions at Hartt (first weekend in December) and Duquesne (Friday before Thanksgiving)...those priority auditions are still in place and students auditioning at those schools, on those dates, receive their results with finaid before Christmas. Now....flash forward to grad school last year. DS made all of his airline reservations in December so he must have known his dates by then (Rice, NU, MSM...train to that one, and NCSA).

yongkilcho

S is senior in Interlochen. Lookig for college, piano major

binx

Welcome, Yongkilcho. What schools is your S looking at?