glassharmonica

Sorry, LoveMeTenor! I should have realized that the "tenor" in your name did not reflect on your own gender but rather your son's. Have a vol-au-vent instead! I find waiting for the results of summer programs to be quite nerve-wracking. Last year there was quite a bit of posting about summer programs, but this year for whatever reason there isn't much chatter... I actually started a post about summer programs on the Theater majors channel (I have an 11th grader who plans to go into acting) and no one is responding to it.

martinphill

Hello everyone.
I have a question. My son recently auditioned for our ALL County Concert band. He ended up in second chair which is great of course. Another boy who my son regularly finishes above by a long way got first?
My beef is this. The other boys Sax private teacher was one of the judges. The judges were blind so in theory they couldnt see who was playing but of course its highly likely that she recognised her pupil. Even if she didnt she had been teaching him how she would want the audition to be played!

Detail; my sons solo results were better as were sight reading. Easy scales were a point lower???

Anyway. More than likely they was no funny business but do you think that the teacher was ethically incorrrect to accpt judging knowing that one of her pupils would audition?
Just a question...

Thoughts anyone? Maybe this stuff goes on all the time and I am probably just a sore loser...

binx

Hi Martin, and welcome. Many of us seasoned parents will freely admit that we parents take these things a lot harder than our kids do. I think I spent half my life crying "It's not fair!" on behalf of my kids. But these things have a way of evening out, and someday your son will get the edge on something. A seat apart is not a bad thing at all. "A bad audition" is perhaps not quite accurate! Your son should feel great about the top scores on solo, etc. Congratulations to him.

Of course we have no way of knowing what really went on. It is likely that the teacher recognized her own student's sound. But it is also possible that she has trained her own student to the sound she prefers, and therefore felt good about grading that student higher. Your son may have played a wrong rhythm on the scales. (Most have a quarter note on the downbeat followed by eighths.) Or skipped the arpeggio. Or something basic like that. Sometimes the scales are weighted differently, so a mistake there costs more.

(Apologies in advance to those who've heard this story countless times.)
In 7th grade my son bobbled his scale, and didn't even make all state. It happens. The following year he made first chair.

My son was in youth orchestra for grades 9, 10, and 11. (We moved away senior year.) I was so frustrated that he was never given the principal spot - each year he was beat out by someone I didn't think was as good. I had a melt-down during junior year. I called his teacher and said, look, getting anywhere in music, you have to be at the top. My kid isn't even at the top in our city! And there are lots more cities, and 50 states - how can he ever compete? (I was a little mad at the teacher, too, because he was a judge, and obviously knew the top two - he taught them both, and I was hurt that he chose the other.)

The teacher rightly rebuked me. He felt that his two students were both at the top. He also felt that it was advantageous to both to have the other as competition, as it would help them sharpen their own skills.

Now, I have to tell you, the teacher's lecture didn't really sway me all that much. I saw my S become discouraged - he made second chair at all state that year, and I was seeing a slump in his confidence. So I got busy. I found other things for him to do - camp scholarships to go after, competitions to enter, etc. He won those things, and got his confidence back. Fast forward a couple years, and both those students were two of the four accepted that year to Juilliard.

That was 7 years ago. Competition has gotten a lot easier for both of us. The audition circuit being what it is, rejections are far more numerous than wins, and a thicker skin becomes necessary for survival. I can go screaming to my grave, "It's not fair!" and sometimes it really isn't. But we've chosen to take each situation as a learning experience, and I am happy now when my S calls and says, "I didn't advance, but now I know that next time I should....."

hmh3515

Great advice, binx! Thanks for sharing.

violadad

In general, I agree with binx, but there may be other factors at play as well. Do keep in mind that regardless of level, ANY audition based process can be a crapshoot.

Without knowing the specific state, and the adjudication methodology as well as the number, training and quality of adjudicators there COULD be some favoritism being shown. If you google "your states music educators association", you should be able to view the criteria and procedures. There may also be a preset limit as to the number chosen from each region or district. Whether a teacher is required to recuse themselves from an adjudicating panel may or may not be stipulated. In some instances, a paucity of adjudicators may make that difficult, if not impossible.

As I recall in our state, adjudicators are typically asked to judge outside of the district in which they teach.

Some other All-State threads that may shed some light on the process:
How big of a deal is all state choir?
All-State Vocal Competition; Which States (if any) Are The Toughest?
Texas All State

glassharmonica

I've always thought that judges should recuse themselves in competitions when their own students audition, but apparently not many in the classical music world thinks so. This sort of scenario is common.

I wouldn't sweat it-- as Binx illustrates, the seating in this concert isn't going to make a difference in your son's career. It's better to learn how to deal with these bumps graciously. Kids (and parents) are sometimes obsessed with seating order in auditioned ensembles. It's a honor and privilege to be principal, of course, but in the end it doesn't really matter much where you sit as long as you can see the conductor over the tall person in front of you.

binx

No, actually, I don't think that's it. I think that we parents who support our kids' musical endeavors do so with a great deal of trepidation. So much is out of our control, and often even beyond our areas of expertise. Is our kid good enough? Does he have what it takes to make it in this extremely competitive field? Are we throwing money and time down the drain? Should we be encouraging them or guiding them elsewhere? It is emotionally exhausting. We are continually looking for validation and reassurance.

So yeah, we gobble up every compliment, and sweat every critique. It's not you, it's just the way it is. Glassharmonica is right - learn to be gracious. Compliment or congratulate the other kid. If your kid usually comes out on top, you know what it feels like to win. Treat the other kid well; chances are good the scenario will turn around next time... or the time after.

(For the record, I think the whole audition process, especially at the professional level, is ridiculous. I wish it were done more like sports - with scouts, etc. If only someone would put me in charge!)

glassharmonica

Great post, Binx. I think I'll print it out and tape it in front of my face.

hmh3515

Last year D sang in the Classical Singer competition at a college in NY. The day before the competition, she had a sample lesson with a teacher from the college who happened to be a judge. Although she did not sing any of her competition pieces during her lesson, the teacher recused herself from judging my daughter.

glassharmonica

hmh, that's a teacher with integrity (although you give an example in which a teacher's integrity does not work in one's favor.) Alas!

SnowflakeVT

binx, I like your style. I vote you to organize the scoring and judging for all future auditions, professional or otherwise.

musicamusica

D is almost done with grad school and ......I STILL HOLD A GRUDGE AGAINST THAT $(&^$## MIDDLE SCHOOL CHOIR DIRECTOR WHO DIDN'T LIKE D'S VOICE.

So there.

martinphill

Hello everyone. Thankyou very much for all of your responses.
We did congratulate the boy that finished above. He is a very nice boy and a good friend of my sons actually. Its not his fault.
My beef as I said is with the teacher. Imagine that she teaches the boy for three years now and he doesnt even make all county last year or the year before. Isnt it very handy for her that the family see some sort of success for all the money they have paid her during this time?

Nevermind though. We will take the high road as many of you suggest.

I guess I will be posting here more from now on as I am very interested on where my son could possibly go forward with this talent that he has. Not being a musician myself I have no clue.

Thanks once again

Martin.

BassDad

Martin,

Welcome. If you have not discovered them on your own, might I suggest you start by reading the first eleven messages at So You Want To Be Music Major - One Family's Experience

It was written about the experience of a string bass player, but contains useful information for any aspiring music major and their parents.

martinphill

very interesting! Thankyou!