thumper1

>>BM vocal performance degree at Boston University (I think they have a connection with Tanglewood)>>

BU has a great vocal conductor in Ann Howard Jones. In addition to conducting the ensembles at BU, she also conducts at BUTI. The "Tanglewood Connection" with BU is for Boston University Tanglewood Institute (BUTI) which is a summer program for high school musicians run on the Tanglewood grounds by BU. The other Tanglewood "student" ensemble is the Tanglewood Music Center (TMC) orchestra which has no connection with Boston University.

BassDad

My daughter will soon start her third year as a double bass performance major at Oberlin and she loves it there. While the place does have the "middle of a cornfield" image, there is quite a lot going on when school is in session.

Oberlin Opera Theater presents two fully-staged operas per year, in conjunction with one or another of the three school orchestras, and other ensembles as appropriate. The production photos on their website (http://www.oberlin.edu/operathe/index.html) will give you an idea of the kind of repertoire they perform and some of the production values that go into them. The eclectic and somewhat unusual programming is chosen with the needs of undergraduate voices in mind and often plays to particular strengths in Early Music and Contemporary Music at Oberlin.

They are on a 4-1-4 system there, with the month of January being devoted to individual and group projects. One or more of the group projects usually involves a slightly less elaborate, but nonetheless staged and costumed operatic performance. Most summers, they have a program called "Oberlin in Italy" in which students spend a month learning Italian from native speakers and rehearsing and performing an opera in conjunction with a local school of music. See http://www.oberlin.edu/con/summer//italy/default.html for preliminary 2008 information. My daughter participated in this program last summer and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Oberlin is not a good fit for everyone. While it is very cosmopolitan for a small town in Ohio, it cannot offer everything that a major city does. The college is proud of its reputation for putting the liberal in Liberal Arts. I highly recommend an overnight visit while school is in session to get a feel for the place. Some absolutely love the place and others find it too isolated or too quirky for their liking. You should also be aware that they are very particular about the voices that they admit. I have seen them turn down excellent singers solely because they did not need their voice type or fach for the productions they had planned out.

My daughter also took lessons at Curtis while she was in high school. It is an amazing place, different in feel from any of the other conservatories we visited while looking at colleges (including Juilliard, NEC, CIM, Oberlin and Peabody). As I am sure you are aware, they accept perhaps three sopranos in a good year from many extremely talented applicants worldwide. Some years less than that.

As to NEC being a "dump," I can attest that their facilities other than Jordan Hall were much in need of renovation when we visited. The dorm was perhaps the worst I have seen on any campus and the admin/classroom building was dark, dreary and overheated when we stopped by. Even some simple things like a fresh paint job and a bit more lighting would have helped a lot. Dorm prices are outrageously high for very small rooms. Of all the schools that accepted my daughter, they were the only one that did not offer any financial aid. The faculty, however, did appear to be top notch.

thumper1

Re: the NEC dorm...ALL freshmen are required to live in it. It is truthfully the dumpiest college building of ANY kind we have seen in two college searches (we visited over 30 colleges total). Jordan Hall, however, is quite lovely. NEC also had some very nice and large practice rooms. And as with BassDad, DS didn't receive any finaid from them as he did from his other schools.

rcmama

I guess my D was one of the lucky ones to get a fairly decent merit scholarship from NEC. Just a word of warning to NEC applicants: you must complete the NEC financial aid application to be considered for ANY type of financial aid - merit or need-based - and the deadline is much earlier than most schools. It might be interesting to call the school's financial aid office to see whether they give out stats on how many students get financial aid and how it's broken down, rather than relying on anecdotal information.

Re: dorms. D has lived in 6 different dorms in the past 5 years. Her worst experience was in the nicest dorm, with a French roommate who didn't know about deodorant and doing laundry. Yes, NEC's is dumpy and needs to be renovated, but it is still quite liveable, and it's only for one year. Basically, a dorm is a dorm is a dorm. If a nice dorm is a major priority, than NEC is probably not the right school for you.

Lulu'sMomma

Great information- you folks are really being so helpful, I really appreciate it since I do not have the resourses nor the stable health to permit me to make as many visits as we would otherwise like to.
Lorelai- you make a valid point- any school can label itself as it wishes.I actually am down to working up a sort of "spreadsheet" i order to try to compare programs. What I meant by a "conservatory" type school was one that stressed the music courses as opposed to one that also required a lot of courses selected from the general liberal arts areas.

I'd love to hear more about the undergraduate performance opportunities at Curtis. While their grad programs are legendary, what I know first-hand of the school comes from the area of string instruments.

Does anyone have any comments about Peabody? I have heard that they are etremely tight with financial aid and I think that I will follow RCMAMA's idea of asking them- and NEC- about the percentage of students that actually receive financial aid. Their web site is pretty, but a bit intimidating since it makes me feel as though they really do not want phone calls. Those of you that have visited the campus- how are the facilities there and also at BoCo?

I am glad to hear the honesty about the conditions at NEC. My D encountered some terrible things while attending a well-known summer program and she really can't take residing with cockroaches, not having working laundry facilities and the stress and hassle of repeated moves to different quarters. She actually became physically ill from insecticides used on the campus (we were never informed that the school used them liberally on a regular basis) and is on 30 days of antibiotics as a result of an allergic reaction that infected. It was a hard lesson to learn, but better now than when she was in her freshman year of collge! RCMAMA, why so many dorm moves for your D? I must admit I did love the story about her one room mate-thanks for the laugh!

BassDad- your Oberlin information and links were terrific- Thank you so much! When I perused their list of operas performed over the past years it seems clear to me that the school really considers the talents available to them and puts them to good use. The Italian program will be a big draw for my D, I know. How far is the campus from metropolitan Cleveland? Are the music student housed together or are they permitted to live in the other houses, such as they French-language house? My elder son has a couple of friends who are Oberlin grads and they can not say enough good things about the school so it will be interesting to see how my D likes the campus itself. Their web site gives an excellent overview of the place.

BoCo is still on our list and I am hoping that there is someone on these boards who has a connection there.
If anyone knows more about Crane, I would also love to hear from you. It is even colder there than it is here, but the cost is much less than the others since they are part of the SUNY system.

Thanks everyone!

MomofWildChild

My daughter had a wonderful 4 years at Rice as a vocal performance major. She does feel that the focus is shifting a little bit towards more of a graduate student focus. She chose Rice for its strong commitment to undergraduates. She had many performance opportunities and as a junior had a major role in the opera. Her teacher, Kathy Kaun, is amazing and a nurturing person. She is one of the major reasons my daughter chose Rice.
Her Interlochen roommate (and maid of honor to be) got her music degree from Indiana. Yes, there are many graduate students, but there is a lot to be learned from these graduate students, too. I don't see how anyone serious about vocal performance can leave Indiana off their list.
I think you need people around you that aren't musicians when you are in college. You just miss too much if you are at a conservatory without a university affiliation. My daughter thought this would be the case, and after the Rice experience, she is sure she made the right choice.

BassDad

The Oberlin campus is a little under an hour from downtown Cleveland. There is bus service but not at very convenient times. Taxis to Cleveland are pretty expensive. An enterprising Oberlin resident has set up a van service for the airport and downtown that is advertised on the want ads section of the Oberlin web site. My daughter has usually been able to get a ride from a friend with a car when she needs to go there or to do some shopping at the mall in Elyria, about 20 minutes away.

Conservatory students can live in any of the available housing. They are not housed separately from College students. There are a few dorms that are primarily for upperclassmen and a couple that are mostly freshman. There is lots of information on the web site.

The only grad program at Curtis is in Opera. Everything else is undergrad only. Even a Curtis diploma is no guarantee of a professional career, but it is a better head start than most. They are generous with time off from school and payment of travel and living expenses for students who are auditioning for jobs and for grad schools and participating in competitions. There are a lot of connections, particularly with the Philadelphia Orchestra, to be made there.

Lulu'sMomma

MomofWildChild, thank you for your comments. Your daughter must have a lovely voice and is obviously very talented. Where did she go for Grad. school or did she go straight into performing? Rice is an excellent school, your D and her voice teacher obviously had a wonderful relationship. Thankfully, all people are different and make different choices according to what works for them, and we are lucky that we live in a country where our children have so many varied choices and are not forced into a path dictated by someone else. Your D was happy at a large, midwestern college as was her friend, but my daughter would not be; and, yes, she is extremely serious about vocal performance, and no, Indiana is not on her list of schools to be considered precisely because it fits into the catagory of a larger, midwestern university! There is a new faculty member at Indiana that my D would love to study with, but overall, four years of living in a place where she would not be happy is not worth it, not when there are other places that would be a much better "fit" for her. I am proud of her for knowing herself well enough as a person and as a singer, so that she has the confidence to make a decision that suits her needs and does not waste the valuable time of others.
My D is a top student at an excellent prep school where she is involved in many other activities, but she always finds herself having to shuffle things to try to find more time for her true passion- singing and performing. She has always proven herself to be responsible, highly intelligent and extremely motivated and focused and I trust her enough to permit her to choose a college that will have the proper facilities and teaching faculty to help her grow and develop to her fullest potential- if that is a conservatory without a university affililiation then so be it. If indeed, she "misses" anything, she will make up for it in other areas and there is an entire lifetime ahead of her to meet people everywhere. Your daughter made the right choice for her and seems to have had a wonderful experience and I am glad that she found a school that would permit her to flourish.
Perhaps the two young ladies will meet someday, on a stage, and bring beautiful music to many. I wish your D well in her upcoming marriage.

Thanks, BassDad! I will be setting up an appointment to visit Oberlin in October when we also see CIM! I do hope that my D can stay on campus for a night, since Oberlin really seems to offer unique opportunties not available elsewhere.Your information is great and your enthusiasm for the school matches that of the graduates that we know, so there must be some "magic" there someplace! I'll let you know how she liked it after we get back, but you may get a PM if I have another question before then!
We'll find the time for Curtis, which should be fun since my D has never seen the area where I grew up and we can make that side trip to Buck's County for that! Curtis will definitely stay on her grad school list, no matter what.

BassDad

Feel free to PM at any time or use the email option if my PM mailbox happens to be full.

lorelei2702

I know one young man who started at Manhattan School of Music, but transferred to Curtis mid-stream undergrad. He has a lovely baritone voice, is very focused in his work, and he is quite charismatic (in a non-flashy way, but my attention was drawn to him in a Cosi ensemble rehearsal). My best guess is that he is in his early 20's....I have heard that Curtis tends to accept older singers even into their undergrad program. He is in and out of NYC singing in different venues. I know a young (17-18 year old) soprano who was called back at Curtis, thought it was her best audition, but ultimately was not accepted...she is at Juilliard, so they must take some young singers. Someone told me that Curtis students can pick their own voice teacher and Curtis pays the tab (I am certain there are limits on who and $, case by case), though I have not verified this.

MomofWildChild

Rice is NOT a large midwestern college- it is a rather small (or, at best, midsized) Texas college!

My daughter just graduated in May and has been called to the priesthood in the Episcopal church, so she is planning on going to seminary starting in fall 2008. She is engaged to a medical student. She got a great job in Houston while he finishes up medical school and they will locate somewhere where he matches for a residency and she is approved for Episcopal seminary- probably DC or Chicago. She will use her music in her ministry.
She is a very talented singer, and also attended a top prep school before the very things you mentioned got to her, and she finished up her last two years of high school at Interlochen, where she could focus on her music and also have strong academics.
She also decided against a large midwestern university, but junior year of high school is too soon to rule out ANY options. I have gone through the college admissions process with two very different kids (one musician, one athlete- both very strong students), as well as having been on these forums for a long time. There are many "changes of mind" as new schools are discovered, other options explored. I made sure both my kids visited a range of schools in a range of locations. I am not trying to tell you what to do, but no matter how sure a student is about music performance, there are a huge number that leave the program for one reason or another, and it is nice to be in a college setting that offers other options.

BassDad

Curtis accepts applicants aged 18-24 for their undergrad voice program and from 20-26 for their grad opera program. They also teach exceptional younger students, but those students are required to attend a local high school and are not considered part of one of the degree programs until they have their high school diploma.

MomofWildChild

The other advantage to considering some larger programs is: the larger the program the more they admit. Obviously, you still need to be extremely qualified, but NONE of these programs can be considered safeties.

MomofWildChild

For the purposes of this thread and those newer posters, I want to point out that my vocalist-daughter is NOT my "WildChild". That one would be a rising soph/athlete at Penn.

drnancie

I also would like to comment on NEC. My daughter is going to be a senior this year, and actually is there now already helping with freshman orientation. I did not find the dorm to be so terrible- she actually lived there for her sophomore year as well as her freshman year. She is having a great experience with wonderful teaching.