mamenyu

Last year, at the information session at Juilliard for piano, the head of the piano department said that about 60% of the applicants were asked to audition based on the prescreening CD's; they accept about 20 students a year in the piano department.

musicamusica

I have to agree that prescreenings are the best way to go. At the one non prescreened audition we went to, we encountered students in tears
BEFORE the auditions when they realised the level of accomplishment that they were up against. And as far as acceptance of screened musicians, at one large voice dept mentioned above, the yeild on prescreens for sopranos was 1 out of 3 and acceptance at auditions was also around 1 out of 3. (At least thats what one of the Doctoral students advised.) DD passed all the prescreens, and three out of 5 auditions. She knew right away, based on her
own evaluation of her performances, which auditions she nailed and which she didnt. No great prescreen tape is going to make up for what may just be a really off day.

stringfollies

An interesting thread I've begun. My S is not by any means in that 10-15% pool of totally unprepared kids. January before auditions would be a little late for a "reality check" anyway. He is, however, a late bloomer and the repertoire on the screening CD is actually less advanced than what he plans to audition with live - his newer big concerto wasn't yet there when he had to make the tape. It just about is there now though. We are guardedly optimistic that he will be able to get into one of the very good music programs, but not sure. Julliard is not even on the list! This was a blow for him, but not altogether unanticipated, just disappointing. He is actually less interested in NEC than others, but had he been screened in, it would have been a nicer marker for him at this point. He's working very hard to play at the top level he is capable of and waiting anxiously to hear from IU about the screening. Any day now.....

mamenyu

Our experience was that the required prescreening repertoire was the same as the required audition repertoire (although it may include fewer pieces -- e.g., 2 of the four at a couple of schools) and that after the first piece, the selection was up to the faculty.

BassDad

I do not agree that prescreening everyone is the way to go. I think the situation could be handled by having schools produce realistic repertoire lists for prescreening recordings and live auditions. All to many schools list audition requirements like "contrasting movements from a concerto written for your instrument" or "a solo of your choice" instead of listing a half-dozen possibilities then saying "or compositions of similar complexity" if they will allow other choices at all.

As stringfollies says, January of senior year is way too late for a reality check. I feel sorry for those whose dreams are shattered at that late date, but the trend toward promoting self-image at the expense of reality in grades K-12 has made such disappointment inevitable for the moderately talented. I feel particularly sorry for those kids who have been misled by well-meaning but clueless adults who have told them that they should audition at places like Juilliard, simply because the adult has no concept of the difference between pretty good and extraordinarily talented.

I remember talking to one high-school principal who insisted that all singing in the school musical be lip-synched to a recording so as not to have to tell some of the kids that they were less talented than others. At first I thought he was joking. Then he went on to complain that the most talented kids had no interest in being in the school show, but were auditioning for parts in outside productions. He could not accept that it was precisely because of his own policy. But I digress.

Putting everyone through the expense and trouble of a prescreening round to spare a much smaller number from the expense and potential embarrassment of a live audition seems to me to be overkill. Musicians need to learn that they are going to fail more often than not in an audition situation and that they need to use that as motivation for the next one rather than taking it as a personal affront. These lessons need to be learned far earlier than at a conservatory level audition.

mom4

One thing we noted from the one pre-screening my son had to do, Eastman/cello, was that the timing was off--he was less prepared with his audition repertoire than he plans to be by the late Jan.-Feb. audition process. Likewise with NFAA, which is why he didn't enter. He wanted to work on other things! Luckily, he did get through that one pre-screening...

-Allmusic-

I mostly agree with Bassdad, but I do think that the prescreening serves as a way to save everyone time and money. We know kids auditioning for musical theater, which has no pre-screen, and I have heard soooooome stories already, about kids who were their high school divas and really have no business being in a competitive audition. Frankly, I would prefer to know that my child wasn't even in the running before taking an expensive trip to an audition.

OTOH, I think the best advice I have gotten here, and it was several years ago, is to have an independent evaluation of your child's talent (from a professional who can better assess the nationwide pool...not from a high school director or private teacher). And then to have it again...through acceptance into summer programs, festivals, etc. There really is no way to know whether your child can compete with the "big dogs" without an objective eye/ear. And yes, this can and should occur well before January of senior year.

binx

That's the scariest part. I remember reading on the FAQs of Juilliard that someone asked if students needed to have had private lessons before applying. Yeah, that's probably a good idea.

Someone (BassDad, I think?) mentioned the ego-stroking in public school. Coupled with that is the idea that music is "easy" - at some schools band and orchestra kids get A's just for showing up. Ours is a little harder than that, but not much. And some parents, whose kids are getting C's in everything else, take it to mean their kid is excelling in music.

At one of D's auditions, as I sat in the "crying room" waiting for her, a couple teachers were talking with a clarinet player who had just auditioned. They were kind and polite, but were asking her in round-about ways if she'd considered music ed rather than performance, and what other schools she had on her list. I know that is a question everyone hates, but in this case, I got the impression they were trying to let her down gently, and point her in some directions she might be more successful at. She and her dad hung on every word, but I didn't think they were "getting" it.

My kids didn't play instruments that were pre-screened. (D had to make one tape, for a scholarship pre-screening.) But I did get the impression that the resumes they were asked to submit were used somewhat for the same purpose by some schools. I'm all in favor of anything that keeps me from wasting time or money.

musicianmom

BassDad, I agree! We've found the pre-screens to be expensive and disruptive. My S's pre-college teacher was not one who wanted students to be spending over a year to learn the audition concerto - and, at least for S, he didn't want him to return to a concerto performed previously. This meant scrambling in late November to put together a fine take of a major concerto he'd been working on for only a couple months. The teacher's schedule had the concerto set to be performance ready for the first audition in January - and it was. The push to "perform" for a CD recording earlier was incredibly stressful.

Thanks to S's new Zoom H-4 (!), some of those problems have been eliminated. He now records every concerto/solo work with accompaniment as he completes them and has a library of possible pre-recorded audition options. Sometimes the requirements state that CD's have to have been made within a specified time frame, but he hasn't found that to be a problem so far.

One other stategy we used for college prescreens, he recorded easier movements of solo Bach than he later performed at live auditions. Many times the prescreen and audition repertoire is not required to be the same. In retrospect, S should have recorded a concerto he'd studied previously for the prescreen and not pushed to record the one that was in preparation for live auditions.

Whew!! This discussion has brought back unpleasant memories! If he goes on to grad school, he'll have to handle it all himself!

stringfollies

i agree about the prescreening being too stressful. my son has been to the iu summer string academy for 4 years and is very anxious to audition at iu. otherwise, we wouldn't have bothered with any schools requiring prescreening. he has been told by many professionals that he is very gifted, but a little behind the curve technically for the top music schools, but he has changed teachers and been working very hard to try to get there this year with the thought that he might have to do the whole thing again next year (yech!!!) i must say that his improvement since september is more than dramatic. nevertheless, the need to perfect an imperfectly learned concerto for prescreening which he won't even use for his live auditions was very time-consuming and unfortunate. i hope he gets his iu audition out of it or it will be a complete wash. he has a newly minted and beautiful-sounding concerto now with few of the old problems built in and almost ready for his first audition on January 26th. there is no question that his musical ideas are special and his sound sometimes is exquisite. he did put easier bach movements on the recording and will play one that is more advanced for auditions - bach is never a waste. wish him luck because he really needs it.

the_wallflower

Passed pre-screening at NEC! *does happy dance*

ALegitBelter

musicamusica- Which school was it that had the 1/3 prescreen and 1/3 audition yield? I'm a voice sop, and would be interested to know if it was IU-Jacobs (I'm auditioning there later this week)

Also, could it not be possible that prescreening rejections display something other than a lack of talent or potential? Most schools have transcripts and essays, reqs, etc by that time. If one of the aforementioned requirements was unsatisfactory, would it not make sense to not allow the applicant to pass the prescreening phase? Or is that completely overly-idealistic of me?

BassDad

Depends. Some schools like CMU and Rice that require strong academic performance may operate that way. A straight out conservatory like Juilliard or NEC is not going to care much about the grades beyond requiring some basic facility in English, and they are probably willing to overlook that if the audition is good enough.

gdtmsailor

hahaha Juilliard pushed back the date they tell us pre-screening yet again!

jazzzmomm

I wish I could get a little better feel for the field of competition in Jazz, since almost everyone posting here is classical, and I believe that field to be larger and more competitive--or, maybe not? S has not had any of the big conservatory auditions yet, though he passed all prescreens, and was accepted to UMass Amherst's jazz program with great enthusiasm. I guess the same rates of selectivity to MSM and NEC apply to jazz as to classical.