matthewchilee

So Rutgers/TCNJ is the smartest move?
how about westminster choir college of rider university? I'd still get in-state benefits

violadad

I don't understand what you mean by instate benefits as Westminster is a private, not public institution. Are you talking about NJ state sponsored scholarships that allow you to use them at any geographic instate institution?

Westminster is well respected for their vocal and choir programs, and I'm sure their music ed program meets the same high standards. It seems that if your stats are good enough to apply to Yale, I'd wager you may be eligible for some merit based scholarships, and possibly some talent based awards as well from Westminster.

Cut offs and parameters for these should be found somewhere on their site.

matthewchilee

I actually am depending on my audition to get me in to a lot of places- but this comes as a disadvantage to me for institutions like yale (since they don't have auditions but welcome supplements.)

I guess I didn't really think about how to fund westminster choir college.. But thanks for letting me know. I'm going to try to audition for some of their merit-based scholarships (they have a ton!)

cartera45

Rider/WCC is private - but perhaps there are benefits offered to New Jersey students that out of state applicants wouldn't know. Do you have your audition scheduled there yet?

BTW - the website has been changed now to reflect the change to Westminster College of the Arts. WCC is a part of that as is the School of Fine and Performing Arts. The MT program is part of the School of Fine and Performing Arts and will be on the Lawrenceville campus, rather than Princeton.

matthewchilee

Whoa, that's news

BassDad

There are a few NJ specific scholarships, but most either do not amount to a lot of money or are pretty specific in terms of who qualifies and/or what schools the recipient can attend. Information may be found at Scholarships, Fellowships, and Loans New Jersey Higher Education Student Assistance Authority

cartera45

The change doesn't really affect anything with regard to WCC - it does affect the musical theater applicants, in that they will be in Lawrenceville, but they will have much nicer facilities since there is no performing arts center on the Princeton campus. Here is the message from the dean - he refers to a 5 yr program that may be of interest to you.

Rider University - December 7, 2007 - President Rozanski Announces the Establishment of the Westminster College of the Arts

matthewchilee

This is great. Thanks for letting me know, haha. I was worried for a second.
So WCC really wasn't affected.

thumper1

>>am depending on my audition to get me in to a lot of places- but this comes as a disadvantage to me for institutions like yale (since they don't have auditions but welcome supplements.) >>

Unless you are a world class musician, I would venture that a supplemental CD will not get you into Yale...even on an endangered instrument (e.g. bassoon, tuba). There are a TON of talented (and very bright) students who also are musicians who apply to Yale every year. In fact, I read somewhere that a large number of Yale applicants have music in their background.

If you have received national or international recognition, your music could be a hook at a school like Yale. Otherwise, I personally don't think it is.

matthewchilee

Thanks for the encouragement, lol
I guess I won't be too dissapointed If I don't get in. Who knows if they have a sure chance anyway?
And there's always rutgers.

thumper1

Matthew, I wasn't trying to be discouraging. I hope you have identified schools that will have a music education major AND other options, just in case you change your mind. AND I also hope that you have a variety of schools on your list, including perhaps a reach like Yale (knowing that it does NOT have a music education program), and other schools that have higher acceptance rates than Yale. Almost anyone applying to Yale should be doing this

Mary H

I'm a little surprised by your school choices if you are planning to be a music teacher. I suppose if money is no object or you are planning on grants and scholarships, then I guess it might not matter. But that's a lot of money to shell out for a future teaching position that will pay about 30,000 maybe? You might want to ask yourself what area of the country you would like to teach and then research the music ed departments in those areas and not only the private and tier one state schools. We live in Minnesota and my daughter wants to be a high school band teacher in this area. We happen to have a gem of a program at U of Wisconsin Eau Claire -about two hours away.
It's a small program but it has produced many teachers in our area including one of her current band teachers. She has been accepted and received a small scholarship plus they have a reduced tuition agreement with Minnesota. Her other choice is Texas area and she auditions at UNT in a few weeks. The great thing there is if you get any of their scholarships, you the get in-state tuition. So my point is there are lots of good schools and good deals out there in music education if you can let go of the whole big name school thing. Good luck in whatever you choose.

BassDad

MaryH,

Your point about the cost of college is valid in any case, but teacher salaries in New Jersey and some other places are higher than you may realize. The average STARTING full-time public school teacher salary in NJ is not far below $40,000 and the average across all K-12 public school teachers is getting close to $60,000. Very experienced teachers can make over $70,000. High school principals (and I know at least one who used to be a music teacher) can break six figures with enough time in the job. There is no statewide teacher pay schedule, so some districts pay even more than that. Of course, the cost of living here is rather high too.

If you happen to be looking for a job from one of the higher-paying school districts, then a degree from one of the bigger name schools may be something of an advantage, at least for someone looking for a first job.

matthewchilee

Wow! That's some information
I realize that cost does play a major role in deciding where to go to school vs. my future financial status. Many people have told me that being debt free is one of the most prized statuses after college is over, and to throw that away for a big name school is a waste. The more I think about it, the more this makes sense.
I really do hope to go to a top music ed school for my master's degree- would a big name undergrad school help me there?

violadad

matthew- I'm not completely sure you did enough research regarding music/music ed in coming up with your list of schools you've applied to. You've stated IU/Jacobs, Northwestern, and Yale specifically. IU snd Northwestern have some top programs in the country; Yale's undergrad music concentration focus is in the academic side of theory, history and composition. Jacobs is not cheap for oos students, and while there may be some potential for talent/merit aid, realize most state funded institutions are mandated to direct their resources towards instate students. Northwestern has been notoriously stingy with merit aid, although appears it may be changing. Some additional detail here:
Northwestern

It seems you have the academic stats to apply to schools like Northwestern and Yale. Congrats. If money is not an obstacle, by all means go to the best institution possible, but with the caveat that name recognition does not particularly mean "best" for the program you describe.

What will matter for grad school and an MM or MEd is your academic performance as an undergrad, your student teaching evaluations, professor's recommendations, and your grad interview. If you show the level of performance that your undergrad selections indicate, you should not have issues.

Realize also there are a number of institutions that will offer a 5 year program that will result in an MM or MEd.

There are a number of previous discussions of music ed programs and options in the following threads.

music ed schools. . . how to choose?
Music Ed Schools in Boston/MA?
Music Ed/Percussion Performance Major NEEDS HELP!
Music Ed at NYU?
Music ed - public vs. private?
Music Education schools
music (choral) education