BassDad

Well, there have been some questions as to whether what goes on in Oberlin should really be called football, but check out Oberlin College News & Features for an interesting article. It certainly helps that he is not playing an instrument that would require him to participate in orchestra.

thumper1

>>what ensembles he decides to play in.>>

Unfortunately, HE won't get to decide what ensemble(s) he plays in at most places...he will be assigned based on his seating audition.

Vieux...yours was a very discouraging post. There is no reason for an undergraduate student not to follow a dream about composing music. The reality is that many students pursue masters degrees these days and a bachelors in music is a fine degree to take into most grad school applications. Plus..this kid could be the next successful composer. Why squash his dream? Sorry...just my humble opinion.

violadad

Vieux, I'm with thumper on this.

It's all a personal choice, not all Muse driven people are swayed by financial reward, be it long or short term. Most who choose the music route do so with much soul searching and are aware of the chances against a tough field with fierce competition. Many have a "Plan B", some a "Plan C".

It all depends on you driving force, your own outlook. Perhaps tis best to try, and "fail", than spend the rest of your days asking "what if?" Unlike some careers, music proficiency at a professional level (particularly the performance disciplines) cannot be achieved with a late start.

neumes

Check out Von Niel (sp?), the tenor fullback on the Harvard football team. Just graduated, studied singing with BU professor while at Harvard. Going to be a young artist this summer with Chautauqua. Search NY Times or Boston Globe for recent stories. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but he did it. What I don't know is if he sang in ensembles. I have a young friend who sings with Harvard and rows with Radcliffe and when it comes down to it, rowing takes precedence. But she performs in operas, etc. I would imagine composition would actually be more flexible, but perhaps I'm wrong. BTW, I know several thriving young composers who are surviving on their music alone. How many pitchers make it to the major leagues?

musmom2

My son was an excellent high school athlete-basketball and baseball. He is a music major at an LAC, with a concentration in piano, he also sings in 2 ensembles, takes voice and plays trombone in the jazz band. There is barely a minute of free time. He really wanted to play baseball, but realized the first day of fall practice/try-outs how impossible this would be. He had managed through out high school to "do it all", but I think there comes a time when kids have to make some decisions as to what they love best.After gaining the "freshman 30 (!)" last year, he has found time to go to the gym 4-5 times/week and play some weekly pickup basketball (sometimes his piano prof. even goes with them!). He says he couldn't even really commit to playing intramurals because of his schedule.OBTW, he lost all the weight and says he must have been nuts to think he could have done baseball too!My husband and I felt that this would be the case, but he needed to figure it out on his own.

SpiritManager

Musmom2- What you posted is what I suspected would be the case. But my question for you is - did your son go in to the LAC as a prospective athlete on either the basketball or baseball teams? Had he met with the coaches who had put in a word for him with admissions? Or was he just hoping to walk on unannounced as it were? In other words, did he have to disappoint anyone (beyond himself) when he realized he would not be able to play both music and sports.

Vieuxtemps5

I agree about dreams and all that, and it's pretty funny how people will go on about their dreams, get the degree, then 4 years later deeply regret what they did. We know that almost no good composers ever went to university for it. One of my good friends won a major composition competition in europe when he was 16. He's gotten like 2 big commissions and that's it. Just remember that it's fine to be noble and not care about money, but just make sure that you really DON'T care about money before you go into it. It's quite impressive how quickly people will regret their decision when suddenly there has to be a decision between food and shelter.

thumper1

Vieuxtemps...in another post, you say you go to a major conservatory. Clearly you have made a decision to study in an arts related area...and that is wonderful, in my opinion. So...I have to ask you...why does it seem you are being so critical of others who want to do the same?

Vieuxtemps5

I'm not critical of anyone who wants to study music, I'm just trying to warn people that they should really, really immerse themselves in that environment before they pull the trigger. It's great while you're there for 4 years, but you might eventually regret having missed out on a lot of stuff that other college kids don't miss out on.

In the case of this poster, if I were him, I'd go to a university with a great composition department. Play sports, be busy, and do composition privately. Not only will that allow him to do what he wants, but it's also how many great composers studied. You just have to take way too many classes which really will not have a use for you later on.

Thumper, the other thing I want people to know that if you're a great performer, conservatories and good music programs at Uni will make you take a lot of music courses and honestly, for a good performer, a lot of that theory/musicianship and all that other stuff really is quite useless. It's horrible to say but that's what I and most of my friends have found. It would be so much better to study exactly what you want and to focus on performance.

symphonymom

Actually, a lot of musicians attend four-year colleges...Leonard Bernstein and Yo Yo Ma went to Harvard. Bernstein studied composing there. John Williams went to UCLA. There are countless others.
If your kid is good enough to be recruited and wants to spend the time playing sports in college, it's a great way to get into the college of his choice (which should probably be one with a great composition teacher nearby or on faculty).
He will have to do an academic major anyway...and there is no reason why that can't be music. It would be just as difficult if he wanted to play sports and major in a highly demanding field such as engineering or premed.
As far as playing in ensembles go...there are a lot of performing ensembles at most colleges. He'll just have to choose one that fits his very busy schedule.
He's a HS junior...I wouldn't shut any doors at this point. My kid found that what he wanted changed as he went through the whole application process. I'd put him on the recruitment list and see what happens. He can always decide not to go ahead with it later. I find these things do sort themselves out.

thumper1

>>He'll just have to choose one that fits his very busy schedule. >>

And again I say...most music majors do NOT get to pick the ensemble. They are ASSIGNED to an ensemble.

Does anyone know of a place where music majors can pick the ensemble they wish to play in?

symphonymom

Hi Thumper! From our research, we found that most colleges that do not have really competitive music departments allow one to choose ensembles...you can play in the orchestra or the wind ensemble or the band or chamber groups. It's just the colleges with very serious music departments that audition kids for groups. So, places like Brown, Stanford, etc. welcome musicians in whatever ensemble they choose (unless there is a huge number of players for certain sections, which is usually unlikely). Places like UCLA and USC are exactly what you are describing. In fact, if you are not a music major, it's very difficult to get into the ensembles!

Vieuxtemps5

Symphony mom: You've got the right idea and the best attitude I've seen so far. YoYo Ma is one of the examples I love to use in these discussions. I think a kid as talented as the one in question, where he's good at baseball AND music, should use it wisely. If he could get into a great D2 or D3 school on a free ride and find one with a great composing teacher, then he couldn't possibly get a better deal.

musmom2

SpiritManager: No, my DS did not really go as a prospective athlete. Coaches of both sports had seen him play, but no promises (by either them or him) were made. As a younger high schooler he had been to both basketball and baseball summer camps at the school, and had talked to both when he was a Sr. There was no need for coaches to put in a word for him with admissions. He chose the school he is attending primarily because of a particular piano prof who he really wanted to study with. Initially he was disappointed that he couldn't do both, but realized his piano practice time was more important to him. He has made peace with no longer being "an athlete" and feels he is in a good place for him right now. I agree with symphonymom above that he should continue to do both for the time being and not shut any doors. Be advised that kids I know who have gone on to play sports in college say it's almost like a full time job by the time you total up the hours of formal practice, weight training, team meetings, games, travel to away games etc. These don't necessarily end (other than the obvious games and travel)when the season of your sport does. Good luck, enjoy the ride-things will work out!

BassDad

thumper,

My daughter has had no trouble moving back and forth between the Orchestra and the Chamber Orchestra at Oberlin. They meet on different days and times and some semesters her schedule works out better with one than the other. The school looks at both groups as equal and does not try to steer the best players toward one or the other. In fact, they try to see to it that everyone has at least a year in each one.