SpiritManager

BassDad - I just looked at the Oberlin baseball recruiting questionnaire. They actually ask if you're applying to the Conservatory of Music! At least they'd take him with their eyes wide open...

thumper1

Thanks for the replies about orchestra seatings. In our experiences (two kids, grad and undergrad) the assignments were made and the kids went. Of course, my kids wouldn't have dreamed of scheduling anything else during a music ensemble rehearsal...least of all anything related to sports

violadad

symphonymom wrote: <Actually, a lot of musicians attend four-year colleges...Leonard Bernstein and Yo Yo Ma went to Harvard. Bernstein studied composing there. John Williams went to UCLA. There are countless others.>

We are friends with a musician with dual science degrees from an Ivy, in the same discipline as her parents. Secured work in her field, published a few papers. She hated it. She was an accomplished performer (competition wins, orchestral appearances) and wanted to pursue performance as an undergrad, yet was forced to the sciences by her parents.

She bagged the science, went back to a top grad school, placed in a couple of national competitions, got a GPD fellowship, an additional prestigious fellowship beyond that and is making a professional career. She's happy as a clam now.

Could she have been in the same place earlier? She herself cannot say.

Life is a series of choices. The road has many forks. And many go to their graves still mumbling "If only..."

binx

I absolutely agree that there is more than one path! However, I just wish to clarify that all those mentioned here also attended conservatories. Bernstein went on to Curtis. Yo Yo Ma studied at Juilliard (before Harvard, I think, but I'm not sure.) And John Williams also attended Juilliard. I can't find any evidence that John Williams ever actually earned a degree anywhere. His official bio only says that he "attended" a couple places, and earned 14 "honorary degrees".

My S's primary teacher never earned a degree. (Dropped out of college to take a job.) He emphasized that his path was NOT one he would recommend to any of his students. I think the classical world has become much more competitive recently, so when looking at paths, it helps to look at recent events. I think most students getting jobs these days are getting music performance degrees.

compmom

I think that composing takes a lot of time, and creative energy. It isn't something you can do well on the side, so to speak.

Our daughter loves theater, but gave it up as a senior in high school: it was clear she had to make a choice. As a student matures, there are also a lot of rehearsals of works composed, time taken up putting scores on Finale, printing parts, and so on.

I think that high school composers should be quite attractive to colleges, but will let you know in a few months! I do know that our daughter's focus has payed off with conservatories so far, in preliminaries anyway.

Two days ago, we were at a rehearsal at a local college, where a professional ensemble is playing one of her pieces (and paid her $400, won't pay for much, but it's money). There was a discussion of the financial side to being a composer. The other composer present told me that he is able to make a living and support his small family with teaching and commissions. One of the musicians, who also composes, had a different take. The chances of making a living as an athlete seem a lot more remote, however, unless your son is a PE major and teaches.

There are many teaching opportunities at the post-secondary level for composers. But, to attain that kind of success, it would take focus and commitment, I guess, and doing sports while "composing on his own time" might prevent that.

The real question might be, which passion does he really want to follow. I mean, it might sound corny, but if he "followed his heart", rather than a strategy for getting in (meaning signing up for sports recruitment), would it be music? It sounds like he loves it.

We all know that making a living often has little relationship to college majors. Music majors can end up doing all sorts of things...but doing what they love for 4 years is something that will last a lifetime. Unless he loves baseball more...It's hard, but at this stage of the game, the way our culture works, the kids really do have to start choosing...

neumes

Interesting discussion. S's longest essay was about having worked his way through just about every sport in existence (football, soccer, hockey, fencing, lacrosse, baseball), then finding his niche in rowing and an excellent men and boys choir almost simultaneously at age 10. He was able to row and sing for a couple of years, but had to drop rowing when theater overlapped. So it's tough. But the camaraderie of singing with other people and in doing theater is his "sport"--it's just that he misses the exercise factor. He's lucky enough to to have inherited genes that will keep him slim forever (not mine, sigh), but that doesn't mean he'll be healthy. I was thrilled last night when he asked if he could join a gym (18th birthday present).

I imagine that composing is more solitary, but the teamwork aspect is huge when the piece is presented to the players, right?

Not sure what kind of composing SpiritManager's son is interested in, but I'm guessing he's looked at websites of young composers whose work he likes. I met two young composers last year--Mason Bates and Huang Ruo--who have interesting websites that show the variety of activities going on. Sounds like an exciting life to me.

symphonymom

For whatever it's worth, I think that as parents, we should not force our children to choose "their passion" at the age of sixteen or seventeen. If a child is a wonderful pitcher AND composer, and wants to continue both in college, that is to be encouraged and commended! Few have both talents at such a high level!
Sticking a kid in a room and telling them to "be a composer" because you have to focus early, seems rather sad to me. The best composers compose from their life experiences, and a seventeen-year old doesn't have much to draw upon at that age.

ImperialZeppelin

I'll just add my observations, that of a parent with a dedicated DIII soccer player (son) who's team made it as far as the Final Four of the NCAA tournament and a dedicated musician (daughter) at a conservatory. Bottom line, unless one can alter the space/time continuum, there are not enough hours in the day for someone to do adequately pursue both.

Now, a composition major may have somewhat more leeway in one's schedule, so practices and away games may be accomodated, but there still are only 24 hours in a day. Good luck to SpirtManager's son in whatever path(s) he decides to pursue...

symphonymom

I agree that there would be no way to play Div I sports and attend a music conservatory, but wouldn't playing Div III sports and composing at a school that has a much less vigorous music program be possible? Isn't baseball a spring sport? I have to admit, I have little experience with sports (although many friends' kids are in it), but although there is off season training, the real push would be spring through summer, leaving some off time to concentrate on music. And composing is very different from a performance concentration.
Where there is a will (and a desire for compromise) there is a way, I've always found. I think SpiritManager just has to do more research and I wish him and his son lots of luck!

-Allmusic-

We have found a LOT of skepticism and raised eyebrows regarding playing two instruments at a high level, and the expectation that it is both impossible to continue and highly discouraged. Singlemindedness, not compromise, seems to be the name of the game.

I cannot possibly imagine the way one could balance one instrument and sports, since at least in music, one can coordinate practice schedules,etc....Of course, this might be very possible at an LAC or university, but not at a music school.

compmom

The kids themselves find a need to choose. I don't know anyone who "locks their kid in a room and tells them to compose." A student who commits to composing can't help it, and couldn't stop writing music if they tried.

If kids want to do two things intensely, they run into problems at some point, and, in mid-teens or so, often seem to naturally begin to cut back on some previous things. This is without any parental involvement at all. Being multi-dimensional and well-rounded is different from being really time and energy-intensive about two things at the same time.

Stress is also a concern. We see this in a lot of kids doing too many things at once. A friend recently quoted a guidance counselor about her daughter's simultaneous ambitions in academics and dance: "At what cost?"

Down time is such a precious commodity these days. Even just taking 4 courses and doing work-study at college, our son can't seem to get to the post office.

lkf725

I have a son who managed to "do it all" in high school: varsity letterman, many music awards, top academics. When he went to college, he let the sport go and participated in a casual way as he had time (it is an individual sport). So he tried to keep up with the study of music performance and theory/composition while studying engineering. It was not long until he had to choose, not because he couldn't do both but there were just not enough hours in a day. S eventually relegated music to casual lessons with a flexible teacher and playing in a local chamber orchestra, while studying engineering. He decided that making A's was his first priority. He also tried to double major in engineering and German, which turned out to have many scheduling conflicts as the engineering schedule is fairly rigid and intense. Realistically, a minor is be much more doable.

You can't tell your children what to choose either...it's just too hard. I think students know when they are getting overbooked and they are sometimes even relieved to hear from you that they don't have to do it all.