symphonymom

Politics is everywhere; ego is everywhere...wait till you hit the conductors of the big orchestras. It's part of the game. But life is like that. Vieuxtemps5 is very wise to point out the potential pitfalls...you really do have to do your homework and get the intel on the teachers and how you request them.
Vieuxtemps...good luck with your situation. String teachers, for some reason, are often so proprietary about their students. I have not found the same in the brass world.

Vieuxtemps5

I'm leaving a very powerful teacher at the end of the semester, and they don't even know I'm not going to their summer thing again... that's why I'm staying anonymous.

thumper1

I am eternally grateful that DS has found outstanding teachers, with excellent reputations, who run collegial studios and work for my kid. I will say, it took a LOT of research on his part to do this. He looked into the teachers and studios FIRST...ensemble opportunities second. For him, it fell into place nicely.

jazzzmomm

thumper, your son's experience sounds like solid advice. I always wonder, though, if a jazz musician's approach makes the ensemble experience of equal importance to the teacher relationship? I don't know--I am just going by unschooled observation of the jazz student scene.

spelmom

The meeting my son had during his visit with the instructor who teaches him improvisation and the opportunity to observe his class carried a lot of weight. The quality of the ensembles was also VERY important to him.

-Allmusic-

The quality of the ensembles is as important to my son as the teacher. I think that this is different for jazz than classical, because he cares mainly about the teacher for his classical instrument.

Jazz is SO much about the other players; it would be odd to me for the kids not to consider emsembles very carefully.

thumper1

>>it would be odd to me for the kids not to consider emsembles very carefully.>>

I agree. DS heard the orchestras everywhere he applied (both grad and undergrad). I remember his asking me after one concert "what did you think of the strings?" He knew that good strings were very important even though he also knows the importance of the winds and brass to complete the ensemble.

violadad

Vieuxtemps wrote: <I'm leaving a very powerful teacher at the end of the semester, and they don't even know I'm not going to their summer thing again... that's why I'm staying anonymous.>

Vieuxtemps, I'm going to offer a bit of advice, and you may well be quite cognizant of it based on some of your other posts. In that case, I offer it here to the less well versed as general background, info, warning, or whatever label one chooses to assign.

You described earlier some of the less pleasant aspects of the music world, including teacher/performer egos, potential for career derailment, rival teacher jealousies. I added favoritism, nepotism, personality conflicts to the mix.

It's important to realize the existence of these "obstacles", and try and working within or around them in a professional manner.

I seriously would think twice about informing the "powerful" teacher about not being available for a summer program if they have a reasonable expectation that you've committed yourself by word or deed to be there. Additionally, I would suggest informing the instructor as quickly as possible about your change of plans. You may give whatever valid reason you like, but the key is not to leave them in the lurch, having to come up with finding an equivalent caliber player. Depending on the program, there may be issues with small ensemble pairings, coaching assignments, etc. that are a hassle to rectify at the last moment.

There are many reasons for not attending a particular summer program, including employment issues, financial, personal, different type of opportunities (high intensity chamber versus orchestral for examples), or the chance to study abroad or with a noted master. Most teachers have the good of the student in mind, and are open to their needs. However, it is difficult for any teacher to be happy if they have to deal with a "surprise" sprung on them at the last moment when open communication at an earlier date would have made it a non-issue.

Another factor to consider is whether this teacher knows you are intending to transfer. There is a code of ethics endorsed by the National Association of Music Schools which outlines specific responsibilities for members, and part of that code deals with recommendations, recruitment of and acceptance of transfer students.

The competition in the field is tough enough based on talent alone. Certain unpleasantries that you yourself have cited or may have experienced make the chances even harder. Ideally, talent and committment should be enough basis for success, but it is not always the case.

Do not do yourself a disservice by not addressing a situation that can be handled easily now with minimal impact on the teacher/student relationship.
If you wait, there is the potential of a poor decision impacting your future success.

Think aout it.

Good luck to you.

BassDad

To connect the dots even more plainly for anyone considering transferring who might need this spelled out, most music schools (NASM-affiliated or otherwise) require incoming transfer students to produce a form signed by the dean of the school from which they are transferring along with the application. That form states that the school has been made aware of the intention of the student to transfer out and it is designed to protect the interests of not only both schools involved, but the student as well. As long as the administration is involved, it becomes more difficult for an individual teacher to take revenge in petty ways.

You may certainly expect that the dean, when asked to sign such a form, will contact the teacher involved to find out what is going on. It would be a bad idea to give the form to the dean without first speaking to the teacher, because most teachers would be quite annoyed if the dean is the first person to tell them. This would constitute burning a bridge in a major way, which is not something that you can afford to do in the music world. Counterfeiting the dean's signature on the form would constitute fraud and could result in expulsion from both programs.

Vieuxtemps5

bass dad, this isn't a regular conservatory teacher... think about being on first name basis with basically every major conductor alive, accolades of pretty much every kind and the widest name recognition... there's no escaping that.

BassDad

Sounds to me like even more of a reason not to get someone like that annoyed at you.

Vieuxtemps5

the alternative is to stay and have them make pretty big decisions for me.

thumper1

I'm plenty confused. Are these decisions that are NOT in your best interest as a performer? If the person you are describing has such stature, they certainly should be someone who can help you in very positive ways.

And even if you don't view it that way...burning bridges in the small music performance world is not a wise idea...in my opinion.

BassDad

Well, you are the one who has all the information and you will be the one to bear the consequences of whatever decision that you make. On the one hand, you now have a well-connected teacher who could do you a lot of good with a few words in the right ears. On the other, if the teacher/student relationship is not working out and you do not like the direction in which you are headed, then it would seem that you really do need a different teacher. In that case, the question is how to extricate yourself from your current situation while doing the least amount of damage.

Obviously, I do not know the personalities involved and therefore I am in no position to tell you what to do. However, I do know that some people are very sensitive about having students or employees go over their heads to their boss with any concerns that they have not been told about. I also know that people who have never had it done to them may not realize how it feels to be blindsided like that, and that they tend to underestimate the consequences of doing it to someone else. Consider the advice worth what you paid for it.

violadad

Along the way, you will find people that will open doors for you, some that will hand you a map and expect you to figure out north from south, a few will point you in the wrong direction. Occasionally, a few may even place man traps and mines along your path.

I, like thumper, am puzzled. Is this instructor not working in your best interest? What you perceive as "making big decisions for me" may be the quickest or most effective means to your end.

Or, are they telling you things you don't necessarily want to hear?

On the other hand, if these choices run contrary to your ultimate goals, you have to voice your reservations and concerns.

Having a teacher/performer of high stature, and thus able to provide insights many students never get is normally a very significant plus in your development.