stringfollies

Outside feedback is good, but it too can mislead. Our son's first violin teacher (who is highly reputed and has many students winning local competitions and going to music schools) told him at 12 that he had everything he needed to go all the way. He had been winning competitions - more for his innate musicality than for technique. He often won playing simpler pieces than the others.

By 14, he had hit a wall. He did not have a good foundation. His first teacher was so excited by him that she skipped a lot of steps to get him into advanced and showy repertoire which he wasn't ready for. We found him another teacher - again one of the best in the area. Her students often win the top high school competitions and many go to music school - almost always at the top level. She too thought him very gifted saying that he had the innate things you can't teach and she could teach him what he didn't have. He backtracked and played a lot of scales and etudes which he badly needed. He improved for a couple of years, but the last year (junior year of hs) he hit a wall again. Her other students were getting it and he wasn't. He grew quite insecure and she suggested the viola (her primary instrument as it hapens). She had a very specific method which was not working for him. Complicated technical stuff just wasn't working.

At the end of last summer, we helped him through a very tough decision about whether to throw in the towel or to continue, but change to a more supportive teacher. We took him to play for a couple of people and everyone thought he could and should do it, but it might not be fast enough for admission this year into a top school. He decided to still try to go for it. While applying to regular college alongside music schools, he changed to a teacher who for him has been a wizard. This teacher (himself a seasoned and very successful performer) has total confidence in my son's ability to get it and is completely flexible about finding ways for him to do so. The results have been astonishing.

He has only gotten into one music school and three colleges so far (we've heard from no others), but the feedback has been very positive. He's not going to be a star next year, but neither is he going to be pulling up the rear any more. He might even decide to stay home another year and study with his wizard.

Some kids have incredible facility and it's obvious. Some have incredible gift and, apparently, that is obvious too. You can't make it without the gift. Everyone says that the technical stuff can be learned, but we weren't sure until now. If your gut tells you that there's something special there, but that something isn't working, make sure that the training is correct for the child. Even the best teachers can't teach every student well.

trpt2345

The first place I would go is your child's private teacher, a must if you really want to be competitive. He or she should have a good perspective on your child's level and the level needed to get into where you want to go.

Note: there was an extensive study done in Britain a decade ago that tried to measure "musical talent", tried to see if researchers could isolate any quality that could be identified as musical talent. In a study that involved 50,000 student subjects, the only factor they could isolate that correlated with success in music was the amount of time spent practicing:the more the subject practiced on a daily basis the better they did, the less they practiced the worse they did. I have seen so many students who were absolutely terrible when they began but by dint of great effort become truly stellar. (On the other hand I have seen other students who achieve a certain good level early on but then flounder and not really progress). Good instruction is also crucial, but quality time in the practice room is the best indicator of your child's ability.

Vieuxtemps5

Stringfollies,

I think what your son needs is a good teacher, specifically a really good pedagogue... I hope he'll be going somewhere with a good, solid technician to give him a solid base. However far behind he got in his teens, he can catch up to now.

tango14

Gee, I wish I had discovered this earlier in the year. The comments are fascinating and insightful.

How do you know if your kid is good enough is a question gnawing at many parents who are hesitating about whether to invest heavily in their child's decision to pursue a music career. We are in a small rural midwestern town (pop. 20,000) with an abysmal hs but fortunately a so so university with great teachers. S discovered jazz sax in 8th grade and dove into it, practicing many hours a day to please a teacher he admired and who inspired him. From the beginning, he thought wanted to go to Eastman. I don't really know why.

We've wracked our brains to keep him interested and not let his motivation wane. Have survived a change of teachers going into soph. year of hs, great run during soph year with his own combo which fizzled when older fellow musicians graduated and went away to college, hs music teacher who was not only unsupportive but resentful of S's interest in music. I agree about state contests not being all that much use. Our observation is that they are very political and reputation of school/teacher plays significantly into who is chosen unless you play a less popular instrument.

We were lucky to have 4 great teachers at the local univ over the past 2 years who have all supported and encouraged S in his endeavors. However, no one told us if he was good enough. What helped their was summer programs. S participated in 3 summer jazz programs where he discovered that the only difference between the best students there and him was how much they practiced on a regular basis. So he upped his practice regimen (min. 4 hrs./day on school days/more on weekends) and organized it to be sure he was covering both classical/jazz/theory/piano.

To make a long story short, despite what might be seen as disadvantages when competing with kids who went to big high schools with great programs, won all sorts of all-state awards, etc., S auditioned at 3 schools and was accepted at all with significant aid from 2 of them. He's chosen to attend Eastman in the fall.

Keep up the good work.

stringfollies

Tango --

My son also did not win a lot of competitions (not since he was 12) and has done very well in the auditions with acceptance from great schools with significant merit awards. I don't think the competitiions add much other than performance experience which you can find other ways to get.

Hat

This one of the things that drove my wife and I crazy. When we asked his choir director at the beginning of our son's Junior year what music schools he should be looking at, he emphatically stated that he did not need to look at any schools other than our state schools. Period, end of discussion. He was then resentful that our son missed three choir classes because he was out of state auditioning (1 day) or interviewing for scholarships (2 days). You would think that a music director would be ecstatic to think that his students would be considered for some of the top music schools in the country.

ksstringdad

It's been interesting as it's worked that way for my D too. As long as she did things that supported the school orchestra and put a feather in the teacher's cap all was well. Not supportive or interested about auditions, career path, etc. Just interested if it threatened to take anything away from his orchestra. Thank goodness for her private teacher who was extremely invested and happy for her.

Singersmom07

Same issue with HS choir director for DD. She withdrew all support for DD, solos, etc after DD missed all distrcit choir and all state auditions for college auditions. Her rep only counted how many she got into the highest state goups and what they were doing in state schools. She did not care about conservatories or oos colleges. Fortunately DD's private teacher was there for her, encouraged her and saw her through the process.

jazzzmomm

We have a similarly obstructionist music director who really seems to want to subvert kids. That's exactly why we ended up sending our son to a precollege program where he finally got to spread his wings. Our hs music director actually told him there was no jazz guitar State Music Teachers competition; that he could only do a classical audition. That was just false, and we were clueless enough to believe it the first year. That was either abject laziness on the teacher's part or plain stupidity, or incredible meanness.

The district and state level competitions are great if you get them, but if you don't, it really doesn't affect a student's progress toward the goal of music school or conservatory. Our son was rejected from several local jazz band experiences for students (this may be because only 1 guitar is usually needed, though!) and it was demoralizing for him. But he still got into a great conservatory--in fact, he got into all but one of the schools he auditioned for.

violadad

Wow, coming from an exceptionally supportive public program from elementary through high school, I realize how lucky we were.

Kudos to those who went outside the box for the advice, support and direction to give your kids the best shot.

This process is tough enough without interference from those who should be encouraging serious and talented students.

thumper1

I'm in the same camp as Violadad. The school music department and the high school in general were VERY supportive of DS's musical pursuits. He was absent about 20 days his senior year between auditions, festivals, honors ensembles, ensemble trips, etc. The school considered ALL of these as excused absences. The only thing the high school director asked (and we were able to oblige) was that DS NOT miss any dress rehearsals or concerts....he was his top musician. He actually worked with US when making the schedules for things like the rehearsals. We avoided the concert dates.

In addition, DS had fabulous private applied teachers from 5th grade on. They were supportive and helpful. We are fortunate that we also have a number of professional musician friends and they were also very helpful.

The only one who wasn't helpful was the high school guidance counselor who really didn't have a clue. BUT you know...she had never dealt with music admissions before so we just didn't use her for much that year.

shennie

We also had a very supportive high school. They gave son lots of performance opportunities. First semester senior year he ended up only going to school half days so he could prepare for auditions. The school was great in helping to figure out a workable schedule that met graduation requirements. There also was never a problem for him missing school for any reason, including a couple of times when he had to miss a couple of classes to meet with his pianist. A supportive school makes a world of difference.

binx

Our band program was fabulous, and S2 got lots of support, attention, accolades. They even forgave him for not marching. His middle school band director is probably still his biggest fan.

Our orchestra program had a completely different personality all together, and D never got an ounce of affirmation once she was past elementary school. Middle School teachers were nice enough, but didn't believe in "stars" so teachers were careful not to praise anyone too much, chairs were random, solos were rare. Three years in German high school - didn't have a music program. Last year of high school in US, and teacher did all he could to break her spirit. She sat in the back of the section because (his words) she hadn't paid her dues by being there all four years. (He knew perfectly well where she had been, and knew her from when her brother was there.) Mainly ignored her. Didn't even bother to ever comment when she won the concerto competition for the county youth orchestra.

I always wondered what might have happened had she gotten the support her brother did.

lorelei2702

Oh, binx...that makes me furious. Do you think it was because she is a female? Or just because he is a provencial ****?

marylandmom3

I am glad to hear other people experienced the not so good high school music teacher. My D's hs teacher was new to the school her freshman year. We had heard some not so great things about him. But we ignored those and tried to be optimistic. He seemed to greatly favor the marching band students of which there were only 20. My D opted to play field hockey instead of doing marching band. She didn't make first chair until her senior year. Although she consistently beat the people in front of her at county and state competitions. He also seemed to favor those students whose parents volunteered all the time for the marching band. Fortunately she had a great supportive private teacher who saw her through college auditions. After my D's freshman year in hs her private teacher just threw up her hands and said "I don't know what else we can do to get you a higher chair. We just have to accept it and move on." She even taught some of the students that the band director rated higher than our D and she really couldn't believe it. My D also opted out of most of the competitions her senior year in order to prepare for college auditions. Her private teacher said "you have bigger fish to fry right now." She had an excellent elementary and middle school band teachers. I also was a little bitter because her hs teacher never assisted the students at all in preparing for any competitions, even the ones sponsored by the school system yet he always got the credit when they placed. I think her experiences, both good and bad, are why she wants to be a music teacher.