notfromme

I have two musical children...one vocal and one instrumetal. Our instrumental staff is so supportive...my vocal d recieved more support from the instrumental staff than the chorus and she is attending a conservatory for mt/opera!!!
I count my blessings after reading some of these posts. Our district is so supportive to the music and arts programs-almost to a fault if you ask some people! The morning anouncements include the musicians accomplishments as well as the academic and sports! We have people come to football games simply to see the band perform!! The staff is not only supportive to those who are musically gifted, but also to those who just like to play. If you are on the performance route to college, they will push you a little more, expect more from you. But, they are also there to pick up the pieces of your broken heart after a bad audition, and celebrate with you for all of your accomplishments.
Music is part of our school's scheduling. Music classes are generally in the afternoon, allowing the kids to take the advanced/ap courses which are offered in the morning. (Yes, the majority of these music kids are in the honors/ap classes just like the studies show!) We have two orchestras, (strings for the underclassmen, full orchestra for upper), marching band (200 kids), 2 concert bands, 3 jazz bands, chamber orchestra, many quartets, two chorus, select chorus, barbershop and sweet ads. That is not mentioning all of the music theory courses and courses like guitar. It is a public school system, 1400 students in the high school and most of them are involved in music in one form or another. We have other school districts come to observe and see how it is so successful, how we do it. I credit our success to the staff. They believe in the students, are proud of them which spreads the belief and the pride through to the kids, parents and the community! I also know this is not the only district to be so well rounded with arts and academics...it can be done!

stringfollies

Wow! That sounds like an amazing place to go to school for any family interested in music!!

binx

Lorelei - I'm not sure what his problem is. It may be sexism; we noticed for years that the concert master was always male, even when there were females who could play circles around him. But he also has severe personality problems. (I could write page after page.) He sees himself as a conductor, and is actually pretty good at directing. He has some impressive credentials. But he is a lousy teacher. I think he is one of those "failed performers" who is teaching not because he loves it, or loves kids, but because he didn't make it elsewhere. (The best teachers my kids have had have been those whose purpose from the get-go was to teach. They see their students' successes as their own, rather than as competition.)

I have to say that our district at as whole is well-known in the area for it's support of the arts. But it's interesting that every year at our HS, there are at least half a dozen band members who go on to major in music or music ed, and rarely is there someone from orchestra who does the same. He doesn't develop the same love or passion that the band directors are able to do.

stringfollies

My own jaded experience is that it is a very rare music teacher indeed who is not much more interested in him/herself and their reputation than in the kids studying with them. This is particularly true of the orchestra and choral conductors many of whom are somewhat embittered, failed musicians who had expected to do more with their lives than teach children. It's an unfortunate reality of the music business which I've seen at many levels with both of my children. My older son sang professional solo opera at the highest level as a boy treble (11 years old) and this was where I saw this first and foremost. The choral director promoted him only because (and for as long as) she thought he would be seen as her protege. It turned out that she was not well liked in the institution (a major European opera house where she was director of the children's choir). He came to her from a US boys' choir already trained and did not find her coaching helpful - she wasn't even a singer. He quickly darted right past her and she then did everything she could to undercut and injure him. Luckily he was so good that her efforts failed. But we as parents were forced to become a barricade between her anger and our vulnerable and young child who was only vaguely aware of her hostility. The needs of the kids are often either not considered or only a negligeable consideration.

I know that these comments will generate some controversy on this site as I am sure there are several dedicated music teachers contributing, but I have two exceptionally gifted music students and I know this to be true most of the time. The saying in our house is: if you come to expect love from a music teacher, you're putting your eggs in the wrong basket. Wisdom and advice, yes. Technical teaching, absolutely, but you as parent need to be the intermediary and policeman to be sure that your child is getting the best that you can get for them. High school music teachers are very often the worst of this phenomenon. Private teachers, by contrast, are more personally involved with their students and thus more likely to be empathetic with their individual needs. Nevertheless, remember always that the teacher cares more about their own reputation than in your child.

thumper1

>>it is a very rare music teacher indeed who is not much more interested in him/herself and their reputation than in the kids studying with them>>

Fortunately this was not our experience at all. The music teachers (all of them) in the schools, the youth orchestra conductor, and every other mentor my son had...including his professional teacher, were very interested in my SON'S accomplishments for HIS sake, and not their own. The high school band director was the best advocate my son could have had...gave him tons of wonderful opportunities, and also nurtured the skills of less refined players.

I hope you don't mean the above quote as a generalization of how public school music teachers are. It sounds like you had a bad experience...and that is too bad...but it doesn't mean that the vast majority of public school music teachers are of the same poor quality.

stringfollies

I didnt' mean to say that they are bad teachers at all. I think that they are usually (not always) far more interested in themselves and their reputations than in the personal situations of the kids they teach. I'm really glad that your son had a good experience, but for his accomplishments, successes and support, there were almost certainly others who were not focused on and could or should have been - I have seen this in a number of places. My children have gone to international and private schools so we have not had public school music directors, but this has been true in the private schools I've encountered. I knew this would generate controversy, but I've seen it to be the case pretty universally. Your son probably made those folks look terrific.

Hat

In defense of my son's private music teacher (as opposed to his public HS choral directors), we found that he was very supportive of our son's musical ambitions. His only drawback was that he did not appear to be very connected to classical voice programs in colleges and only had a few recommendations. He may have had more connections with musical theater colleges (although he was classically trained and sang opera professionally) because most of his students are more interested in musical theater. I have not noticed that he is particularly concerned about his reputation and he seems to have all the students that he can handle. He does have a "brag sheet" in his studio where he lists the recent accomplishments of his students and I suppose that may enhance his reputation, but I think the students enjoy it more.

Now you can see why I started this thread - an unsupportive choral director and a supportive private teacher who wasn't that knowledgeable about classical voice colleges where our son might fit in.

jazzzmomm

Totally agree with stringfollies' assessment of the public school music teacher. Though, of course, there are notable exceptions (I remember one great choral teacher who left quickly), our experience has been with teachers who not only don't care, but can be downright mean. On the other hand, one private teacher has been such an exceptional mentor, both musically and personally, he eclipses the bad experiences. He rescued our son when the MSM precollege let him down with recording a prescreening CD and provided many many other wonderful positive experiences.

If your child is driven and gifted just look for those adults who will encourage and mentor. They might not always be in your school, and thank your lucky stars if they are!

lorelei2702

Binx, if all of your kids are through the system, I would be making waves about the sexism issue...kid's lives are being affected in a major way. That may not be his only problem, but it could be a good indictment issue to get him out of there.

notfromme

"This is particularly true of the orchestra and choral conductors many of whom are somewhat embittered, failed musicians who had expected to do more with their lives than teach children."

Maybe this is true for some. All of our directors perform with orchestras, bands and quartets so maybe that is why they love what they do. Our band director is highly sought after to appear and perform. Our orchestra director is young and performs with the symphony as well as special appearances in our area. They are so proud of the kids and their accomplishments...taking it as a reflection on themselves!! Now, believe me, we do have our ups and downs...don't we all??? The band director tells it like it is...no sugar coating. But he will also be your biggest fan.
So, between our d's private instructors (who are also adored), school directors and camp experiences, I hope that d (and us!) will know what schools will be within her reach for next year...ugh...actually for the fall!!!
*and we do count our lucky stars most of the time!*

team_mom

I thank my lucky stars each day for our school's music director-

who took my fledgling children who entered this middle/high academic prep school on the precipice of leaving music, and brought them into an exciting world of quintets, classical music and Juilliard precollege with lots of encouragement, support and opportunities. My D always credits her in the bios that are included in concert programs. Morning meeting each day at high school is filled with the accomplishments of the sports heros, academic stars and arts recipients. And although my D missed over half of the winter quarter of her senior year involved in outside musical activities, the school bent over backwards to support and honor her achievements. I clearly remember the headmistress telling us "what good is an attendance rule, if it keeps the students from achieving that which the school has worked these many years to achieve, a student that excels in their field." She will always be my other hero.

Thanks for reminding me to tell then thanks AGAIN. So far as I am concerned, it will never be enough.

binx

Wow. Just wow.

jazzzmomm

That quote reminds me of a wonderful American History teacher who said, what does it matter if he gets an A in my class? Music is his passion, not history. Yay for those educators!

tango14

Didn't realize I would touch a nerve with my comment about the unsupportive hs teacher. It's nice to know we're not alone. I had trouble because I am a college teacher myself and I couldn't imagine myself not bending over backwards for an excellent student. Years later I'm still in touch with some for whom I went the extra mile.

There are many excellent hs teachers just as there are many duds and everything in between. The problem really is when you're dealing with music teachers as opposed to other subjects. One year with an English teacher who's only so so isn't going to seriously damage a kid's interest in being an English major. However, music, especially at the high level our kids have achieved, is so very personal. It is bound up in self expression and self confidence and passion and, yes, ego, too. And there are often only one or two music teachers in the school whom the kids must work with for several years. Good is wonderful when you get it, but bad can be devastating.

S's teacher also told him to apply to the state schools. Private teacher said "Go for Eastman. If you don't make it there, you will still be able to get into many other great schools." Certainly not the case if he had only aspired to the local state university.

marylandmom3

tango14- you are right. The real problem with a bad music teacher is the student is stuck for several years. Our D was stuck for her whole 4 years of HS. The only nice thing he ever did was write a really, really nice letter of recommendation for her. It surprised us all. My H and I are both teachers and we work very hard in our areas. It really bothers us when we see incompetence as a teacher among our profession. We receive graduation announcements, wedding invitations, Christmas cards, etc. from former students. Teachers do make a difference. I have no doubt that my D's HS teacher is great musician. He is a drummer. But he is an awful teacher.